Milsurp with cast results

muzzle flash

CGN Regular
Rating - 99%
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Location
sw ont.
I wanted to use one rifle powder with a buch of milsurps. All bullets were sized and gas checked.There were of several weights and styles and lubed with orange magic lube. Bullets were not weighed or sorted in any way.
I also tried to keep velocities on the top end.
All groups were fired from rests off bench at 100 meters some loads chronographed.
As can be expected several rounds had to be fired to get elevation somewhere around the x ring as all loads shot low. No attempt was made to correct windage.
Results ran from very poor to several firearms shooting cast must better than expected.
The garand,M1 carbine,VZ 58 and sks cast loads all functioned the action well with good feeding and ejection. On the svt 40 the spent brass would not always clear the action resulting in several squashed casses.
My objective was to find which milsurp would like shooting cast the best with out a lot of load development. The choice of IMR 4198 powder was due to a healthy supply I have.
With the VZ. The first three or for rounds would group excellent but after that groups opened up to about improved cylinder. I could find no evidence of leading but after cleaning this performance repeated itself several times so I assume it was.
The biggest disapointment to me was with the garand. I had hopes of spending the summer shooting cast through it but I have not been able to find any cast bullet load that will shoot well through it but yet it shoots jacketed as well as most garands.


YOUR COMMENTS?

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Does not seem to be much hope for the VZ-58

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This Russian SKS. Fared not much better.

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86g Jacketed and 110 gr cast reloads for the Nagant Revolver Cast bullets keyholed

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Received better Results than expected with the french

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Only was able to try the 158 gr. flat nose due to myself jamming a bullet into lands

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The Carbine grouped much better than expected

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#1 mk III another plesant surprise with cast - fronteir and a cast with buffer

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SVT-40 with cast

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J.C with cast and fronteir

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Garand Load was a disappointment

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MOSIN SNIPER HADLES CAST WELL.
 
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Nagant Sniper seems to like the 311299 quite well.

Try to find some IMR SR4759 , Really good powder for cast loads.
 
Yes, I have the same mold, have had success in 30-06 with it.

The 170S gr pointed bullet, is that a 311413? if so try that one in the Garand.

Using SR4759 there is no need for fillers at all, Burns complete and super clean.
 
Fascinating....

Thank you for your report - very thought-provoking.

There is real potential here for cheap and accurate loads that will increase the fun to be had from milsurps. I particularly note the good M1 Carbine results. (Almost) makes me want to buy one.
 
Advice till the cows come home at castboolits.com They live ,eat and sleep pure lead..........................Harold
 
how about a mod creating a section for cast rifle for every one who wants to learn more and so they can find it all in one place

shoot cast the real Bullet
 
Cast bullet accuracy usually takes longer to develop then with jacketed bullets, Oal(distance to lands) is very critical, as is velocity. My most accurate cast bullet loads usually have the bullets seated way out and velocities quite low and are used in very accurate benchguns. None of these "accurate loads" would feed, function, cycle the action in a semi-auto rifle, so if you want good cast bullet accuracy out of milsurp rifles, I'd suggest some of the fine boltguns out there, esp. the K-31, Springfield a3-03, and yes ...the Lee Enfield.
 
It appears that you're getting leading, which is usually the result of:

- undersized bullets;
- too much pressure;
- poor lube; or
- too soft or too hard a bullet.

It's way too soon to write off cast bullets in any of those guns, and each is unique, but if you want to continue developing loads, the next thing try is:

- use a softer alloy (don't water quench); and
- use less of a faster powder. I like SR4759 in those sized cartridges.
 
It appears that you're getting leading, which is usually the result of:

- undersized bullets;
- too much pressure;
- poor lube; or
- too soft or too hard a bullet.

It's way too soon to write off cast bullets in any of those guns, and each is unique, but if you want to continue developing loads, the next thing try is:

- use a softer alloy (don't water quench); and
- use less of a faster powder. I like SR4759 in those sized cartridges.[/
QUOTE]

I have had 4759 mentioned to me and plan on trying it. I do not think my bullets are to soft but I have no way of testing them. I also plan on droping charges a bit to see if this will improve things. The CAST BOOLIT site has a lot of info but can be quite confusing. I once asked for the best lube for running cast bullets fast. Well I got about 20 expert casters recomending recomending as many differnt lubes Now you got my attention on the hardness. I have always believed that you could not get lead to hard for bullets. What happens to a to hard projectile and at what point is a projectile to hard? I agree that each firearm will determine how it wants to be or if it wants to fed its diet of cast. So I assume the gun will tell me how hard it wants them. If you can explain this hardness issue please do so.

THANKS
.
 
It appears that you're getting leading, which is usually the result of:

- undersized bullets;
- too much pressure;
- poor lube; or
- too soft or too hard a bullet.

It's way too soon to write off cast bullets in any of those guns, and each is unique, but if you want to continue developing loads, the next thing try is:

QUOTE]

I have had 4759 mentioned to me and plan on trying it. I do not think my bullets are to soft but I have no way of testing them. I also plan on droping charges a bit to see if this will improve things. The CAST BOOLIT site has a lot of info but can be quite confusing. I once asked for the best lube for running cast bullets fast. Well I got about 20 expert casters recomending recomending as many differnt lubes Now you got my attention on the hardness. I have always believed that you could not get lead to hard for bullets. What happens to a to hard projectile and at what point is a projectile to hard? I agree that each firearm will determine how it wants to be or if it wants to fed its diet of cast. So I assume the gun will tell me how hard it wants them. If you can explain this hardness issue please do so.

THANKS
.

You only got 20 opinions? How many had mutton tallow in them? :p

I don't think the bullets are too soft, as your loads are modest, and you are using a medium speed powder. They can be too hard though. A softer bullet can be bumped up in size and fill in the bore, not leaving any minute gaps for hot gasses to cut at the bullet. I'm not saying that's what it is, but it's worth a try.

Do you know your bore (groove) sizes? It could be that your bullets are a bit undersized and being hard would make them more prone to leading.
 
You only got 20 opinions? How many had mutton tallow in them? :
Do you know your bore (groove) sizes? It could be that your bullets are a bit undersized and being hard would make them more prone to leading.[/QUOTE

I have heard of mutton tallow although I do not even know what it is.
I have sluged a couple of bores but due not like doing so due to having trouble getting slug through bore so this is one imporant step I do omit. (using a hammer and brass rod on the bore just seems wrong) I try to take the 2 thou. over bore size for my first projectile size then work to larger dia. if needed.
 
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Yes 311 is probably too small for sks and 858. I size mine to 314. If your mold is dropping them at 311 you can beagle it. Put a piece of muffler tape inside the blocks but not in the cavity of course. This will hold the blocks slightly apart dropping a slightly larger bullet.
 
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