Milsurps - collector items or shooters?
- Thread starter Vladivar
- Start date
I wouldn't worry about your argument being a losing battle. They're your collectibles and you can do what you want with them, nothing to argue.
I absolutely appreciate the history, mechanics and aesthetics of every military or historical firearm I collect. Nothing brings you closer to the history of a particular gun than actually firing though. You have no idea the rush you can get from pulling the trigger on something that there is only a handful of in our entire nation. I'm not worried about their value decreasing because if it's an original all matching example it will be handed down to my children, it's not for sale. If you're worried about parts breakages then simply load gallery loads. Firearms are over engineered with a large safety margin. However, that's just me. The fact you keep yours in pristine condition is good news for the collectors of tomorrow.
I will admit that when a firearm is essentially irreplaceable in our market it does take me a few years sometimes to work up the courage to fire it!
I'm with Steve 100% on this one. I have a Norwegian capture 98k that shoots beautifully and I shoot it. I have another ten or so 98k's that will never be shot and their condition will never change as long as they're in my collection. All I need is a recoil lug setting back a cross bolt or a cracked wrist on a 70yr old stock.
I've a waffenampt'd Luger that I've shot many a round through. Truth be told, it's got a mismatched Toggle. But having it and not giving it a 100 rds or so every so often seems a shame. When one reads about wear tests on, say a 1911 Colt or an earlier production Luger...they are tough guns!
But enjoy as you see fit. Cleaning and oiling it but not shooting it seems a tad blasphemous to me...but not meaning to offend, just saying.
But enjoy as you see fit. Cleaning and oiling it but not shooting it seems a tad blasphemous to me...but not meaning to offend, just saying.
Contrary to one of the above posts, I do have an idea of what it's like to fire a really nice milsurps. I have a nice Luger that came back to Canada after WW2 with a Canadian soldier who was a POW in a German camp. Never mind the story, as it will just bring out the "don't buy the story, buy the gun" posts. I knew the man personally, and his brother who inherited it, and the brother's son, who I bought it from. It is a real beauty, and came with a belt and holster, taken from the same German officer.
The lesson learned with this one was a cheap one. I have another nice Luger, but a mismatch. I was blazing away at the old gun club one night and half the toggle flew back past my head. No injury and I was able to find a nice part to replace it. The really nice one was safe at home.
I will continue to stick up for the people who don't care to fire their collectables. I also fired a really, really nice matching German 98 that belonged to a dear friend who passed on. The barrel was a bit grungy from not cleaning it after firing corrosive ammo. When I bought it, I tried my best to bring the bore to a shine. No luck. I took it out one day and cranked a few rounds of that Yugo surplus with the silver colored bullets. Took it home and cleaned it up. Looks good now and gets a swipe of good old Fluid Film every now and again. I doubt it will ever get fired again while I own it. It is a treasure that goes beyond "collecting".
The lesson learned with this one was a cheap one. I have another nice Luger, but a mismatch. I was blazing away at the old gun club one night and half the toggle flew back past my head. No injury and I was able to find a nice part to replace it. The really nice one was safe at home.
I will continue to stick up for the people who don't care to fire their collectables. I also fired a really, really nice matching German 98 that belonged to a dear friend who passed on. The barrel was a bit grungy from not cleaning it after firing corrosive ammo. When I bought it, I tried my best to bring the bore to a shine. No luck. I took it out one day and cranked a few rounds of that Yugo surplus with the silver colored bullets. Took it home and cleaned it up. Looks good now and gets a swipe of good old Fluid Film every now and again. I doubt it will ever get fired again while I own it. It is a treasure that goes beyond "collecting".
I'm certainly hoping that you are not referring to me, sir. As I think that mine is a really fine milsurp, as are a few of mine. So you assuming that mine are not fine...well you know what they say about assuming...
These fine weapons were made to be fired ( mind you I've never even seen a slide get smoke off of it...not even going through a run and gun with a Steyr - Hahn)...to negate them to safe queen status is rather sad. Mine was made in 1941, still sports the original wood grips...perhaps the sweaty palm of a soldier fielded this in battle? Would he say " No, it should be left in a dark safe...only to see the light of day if another collector visits. What I fought for; the sunny afternoons, crisp fall colors and the frozen days...they are gone? This fine piece of equipment should be hoarded away like a miser's nickels? Take it out and let it see the light of day...use it!"
I rather like the feel of it in my hand, as do my sons. Who knows what it has seen, Barbarossa or Normandy, perhaps Market Garden? The DNA of the original user that is soaked in the grips needs to see the light of day, not be neutered and locked away. It ignites the imagination, carries a certain intangible weight.
A weapon is made to be fired, to do any less is not respectful. If you cannot or will not fire a weapon.... it is an expensive paperweight. Tools were meant to be used.
IMO of course
Stay safe
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Ok....we need to have a talk
I dont like Mosin either and I had a few. I just got tired of mosin this and mosin, every 3rd thread about a mosin, Every second about SKS anything you can get for under 150$ like new isn't a collectible. I mean most of my mosins I bought for under 100$. Just a cheap milsurp.
Like it or not it's your free choice but there is definitely not less history and heritage behind any cheap wartime Mosin than overpriced Garand. IMHO its worth to collect anything with history behind it, rarity just affects the price.
And besides it makes a nice and cheap shooter too.
Actual Mosin collectors collect originally matching, captured or 'light refurb' examples. They're quite uncommon in Canada and sell for a premium of about $400-$3000 depending on what you have in our current market. A typical refurbished Mosin is not really a collectible, this is true. It's actually easier to find a an original all matching K98k than it is to find an original, all matching 91/30 that hasn't been refurbished in any way, to give you an idea. Much easier. "All stamped matching" for a Mosin is zero indication of whether it is originally matching.
To give you an idea, I've had a non-refurbished / unfired 1954 Izhevsk SKS in a very rare blonde stock for trade now for a month and 100% of all Mosins that were offered to me were not originally matching or 'light refurbs' even though the person believed that they were.
I have no problem taking any of my milsurps to the range - although I keep the round count low and, as others have commented, go with lighter loads. My budget keeps me at the low end of condition when it comes to collectible milsurps - with a couple of exceptions - so the decision is a bit easier. I will say that I do pause before I take out my mint Lebel 86/93 or my carved Boer Mauser.
The thing I enjoy most out of taking these historical arms to the range is giving others a chance to see, and fire, rifles or pistols they've only read about or seen in pictures - the Ross rifles being a big favourite.
The thing I enjoy most out of taking these historical arms to the range is giving others a chance to see, and fire, rifles or pistols they've only read about or seen in pictures - the Ross rifles being a big favourite.
Eaglelord17
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Oh you mean like the Lee Enfields, M1 Carbines, M1903s, Rosses, M1 Garands, K98ks, Gewehr 98s etc. Everything was cheap at some point, value isn't determined by price rather what someone wants. The only reason the prices are cheap is because there is plenty of them (at the moment). As soon as supply dries up the prices go up. Look at the price of SVT-40s, in Canada there cheap semi autos that people have taken to butchering. In the US they sell for over 1k a piece.
I don't have the money or space to collect. I like them in original configuration, but I buy them to shoot. I won't live long enough to shoot them enough to wear out these guns made to work in the harshest condtions.
I won't permanently alter one that hasn't already been irrevocably modified. If I get one that can be restored I'll restore it myself or sell it to someone who will.
I won't permanently alter one that hasn't already been irrevocably modified. If I get one that can be restored I'll restore it myself or sell it to someone who will.
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Not sure how you got to that point? I haven't tried to insult you or anybody else. I have no idea what your firearms collection may consist of, and I certainly haven't assumed anything. No need to get all worked up.
I'm a collector and a shooter.
Some spend lots of time in the rack, others get pulled out very often. The really mint ones see almost exclusively cast loads which keeps their bores as new but still let's me enjoy them.
I tend to stay away from mint "unfired" (if you can call any gun unfired) examples cause I lack the self control to not try everything I own.
Some spend lots of time in the rack, others get pulled out very often. The really mint ones see almost exclusively cast loads which keeps their bores as new but still let's me enjoy them.
I tend to stay away from mint "unfired" (if you can call any gun unfired) examples cause I lack the self control to not try everything I own.
30 years ago the Enfields, Mausers etc were also 100$ guns. Mosins have appreciated 100% in ten years? Thats not bad. Even the SKS is appreciating quickly as we speak. For example Wholesale sports boxing day sale last year was 159.99, this year it is 205. That is huge appreciation in one year and there are rigid supply forces behind it. We will never, ever see a 159.99 sks again.
