Mini Buffler Rifle

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Sharps '63

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T'other day when I was at the range with my '63 carbine, I took along my "wife's" Uberti rolling block rifle in .357 magnum. This puts it in historical company as the originals came in .25, .32 and .38 rimfire and centrefire.

It's based on the Remington No. 2 action, perfect for the cartridge. Getting one of the mini-Sharps rifles was out of the question, but the Uberti fills the need admirably. This is the rilfe we all would have loved to have when we were kids.

What a hoot to shoot! I had loads in the plus-P range and magnum loads in the low range. After plinking shards of clay birds out to 75 yards, I benched it at 100 yds and shot the same sub-2" group that I fired with the .50 Sharps '63. This means it would be a viable deer rifle out to that range, but just.

When we first got it, we also had some BP loads using 20 grs of FFFg. These were really fun and just as accurate as the smokeless until the bore got fouled after 25 rds.

I just cast some 160 gr RCBS semi-wadcutters that I intend to size/lube with SPG to better handle the fouling.

Now I need some mini-buffler targets .....
 
try making a blow tube from a 357 caseing and a piece of rubber hose and blow down the barel from the breech end, say three times between shots and your fouling will stay soft, and allow more shots between cleaning, i run a wet patch with any bp solvent and one dry patch every 10 rounds, i have fired 2 inch 30 shot groups at 200 yds with my sharps doing that, wade
 
Uberti .357 RB

Wade/Waba

The Uberti is actually a rifle, the barrel measuring 26" from muzzle to rear of the breech. Lots of velocity and sight radius. Like I said - like a 'mini-buffler rifle'.
The carbine would be very whippy, but a good child's gun.

I bought it for my wife and it's registered in her name, but ..... knowwhat Imean ..... ? I might even let her shoot it now and again.

You're absolutely right - a blow tube for BP use is essential. We were having so much fun with it that we burned up the 25 or so BP rounds we had without so much as wiping the bore or blowing it down.

It had a right to get fouled. Just a piece of clear plastic tubing ought to suffice.
 
Those look like a really sweet little rifle. Must be a joy to shoot!

I'm kind of surprised that I don't see more of them around on the black powder circuit around here. People are always looking for lighter cartridge guns for off-hand, women and kids.

A few more chamberings to choose from would be nice.
 
Hmmm .....

John

Got any Spencers or 50-70 carbines coming in?

Viking

I passed on a 45 LC carbine once as it was built on the full sized action. Seemed a bit much gun for the cartridge.

The .357 and .22 Hornet are built on the trim little #2 action.

I wonder if one of the Uberti RBs in 30-30 would make for a good BPCR? It would depend on the rate of twist.
 
The EE has a couple nice looking full size rolling blocks right now.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=423540 This has the bonus of antique status.

I never had great luck with small bore necked cases shooting black. Other people have had more succes and 32-40 was once a top target chambering loaded with black.

Always figured that they should make those #2's in 25-20, 32-20, 38-40, 218 Bee or similar chamberings. Guess they don't think demand would be there but the cowboy shooters would probably go for a few.


John, are the ones you carry all #1 actions or is the baby carbine the smaller #2?
 
BPCs

Viking

Several BP cartridges are straight walled, in fact, all of the later BPRCs are.
In pistol, we have the 38 Colt, 44 Russian, 45 Colt, all the Brit BP pistol rounds, etc.

It's the bottle necked cases that considered to be problematic. My only experience there is with the .43 Spanish, the ballistic equivalent of the 44-77 Sharps. Can't say I've had any problems with it.

I agree that the #2 ought to come in the 'traditional' rounds you mention, but historically, the .357 is in the ball park with the 25, 32 and 38 RF and CF rounds of the original. All of these were offered in BP loadings as well smokeless.
I think the rationale was the availability of .357 and .38 Spl. brass compared to the traditional cartridges. A lot of CAS shooters have guns in these calibres already.
Shooter demand will cause Uberti and others to sit up and take notice if enough people ask for traditional chamberings.

My concerns re: the suitability of the 30-30 for BP was the 1 x10" twist. The .32 Spl. had a twist of 1 x 16", a little more in line with the slow twist associated with BPCs. One in 10 might be a little fast.
 
45 Colt RB

Viking

John isn't in a hurry to reply to your question.

Looking at the web site, the 45 Colt 'Baby Carbine' will be on the larger RB action, like the one I mentioned that I didn't buy.

I met the guy who bought it at the range and he was delighted with it. It was deadly on the 1'x1' gong at 100 yds with a tang sight. He hadn't zeroed it for 200 yet, but it should perform well at that range as well.

Handling it was a delight, but we all thought, "Gee, wonder why they didn't give it a longer barrel ...?"
 
Thanks Sharps.

I was just curious as I'm not really in the market for such a thing right now. Just got a barrel for a #1 rolling block that I need to get put together and also have a couple #4's that I would like to get back to shooting condition before I start looking at new purchases.
 
barrel length

Yeah - some guns just look plain stupid with shorter barrels. Others look just right.

You pays you money - you takes you choice.

Someone suggested that I get my wife's .357 Uberti rechambered to .357 Max. That would allow more BP and duplicate one of the original .38 rounds all right, but it might be a problem chambering the round over the hammer.

However it violates the rule - "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

I know of rifles that were rechambered from .300 H&H to .300 Mag; 45-70 to 45-90; 50-70 to 50-90 and the owners lived to regret it.

After 50,000 rds or so in .357, I may consider it ......
 
calibres

Yeah, I agree. Old timey guns (Henry, RBs, '92s, 73s) chambered in 45 Colt doesn't compute to this cowboy.

Just sized 200 RCBS 158 SWCs (a gas check design) for my wife's .357 RB and wondered where the extra grease groove came from ....

The slight heel for the gas check was filled with SPG lube; an extra 'grease cookie'. Every little bit of lube has got to help in that small bore.

The downside is that in hot weather it will melt and contaminate the powder.
We'll deal with that when it happens ....
 
I shoot nothing but black in my .32WCF, and fouling hasn't been an issue. Do you use 3f? I would think that the straight case would be better than the bottleneck in the .32WCF. I do place a disk of hard beeswax over the powder, and maybe the fact that I'm only burning 18gr. of powder really helps.
 
Sharps '63 said:
Yeah, I agree. Old timey guns (Henry, RBs, '92s, 73s) chambered in 45 Colt doesn't compute to this cowboy.

Just sized 200 RCBS 158 SWCs (a gas check design) for my wife's .357 RB and wondered where the extra grease groove came from ....

The slight heel for the gas check was filled with SPG lube; an extra 'grease cookie'. Every little bit of lube has got to help in that small bore.

The downside is that in hot weather it will melt and contaminate the powder.
We'll deal with that when it happens ....
Click to expand...

As far as calibers go I like to try and stay at least close to things that were original bp cartridges. The 357 Max would be tempting though....

You can buy or make up a punch to cut disks out of milk cartons, cereal boxes or other material to seperate the bullet from the powder. I use cork gasket material from NAPA in my 45-70.

Or if you have access to a lath you can open up the mold to get rid of the gas check groove.
 
BP in .357

I like the idea of the extra lube in the gas check 'heel'. Time will tell if it aids in lubrication.

A CAS pal used to shoot his Marlin Micro-Groove carbine with 21 grs FFFg under a 158 SWC (smokeless lube) separated with one newsprint wad. He shot thru' matches just fine with it.

My first BP .357 loads used a waxed .36 cal wad. I ran out of them so I ordered some lubed .36 felt wads. We'll see if they allow the same powder charge. If not, i'll be cutting some light card wads.

Oddly, I load my 50-70s with no wads - 65 grs FFg under a Lyman 515141.
It's the 50-70 recipe published in magazines and the book on shooting buffler guns by Mike Venturino (aka MLV).

Worked for him - works for me. Great on paper and drops deer and bears like lightning.
 
I was wondering if thats who MLV was. :) Saw your post on the Sharps forum.

I'm going to have to do a lot more reading over there. The depth of knowledge is amazing!

The idea with the cards is mostly that they act a bit like a gascheck and reduce damage to the bullet base and the chance of gas getting around the sides of the bullet.

Many people claim that you can't get great accuracy with un-capped gascheck bullets And my results with them have been a bit iffy too but I haven't had a chance to get flat base bullets for a couple of my guns yet so I continue to experiment.
 
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