Mirage Versus Scope

338x

338x

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Last weekend I went shooting my model 12 FVSS Savage rifle in 308 win newly equipped with a Sightron SIII 10-50X60 LRTD. I sighted at 100 M then started shooting at 400M. It was about 11H00AM it was cool with 6-8 Deg. C but very sunny. At full power (50X), the mirage was very bad!! I could not have a clear focus of the target and even using Shoot N-C targets, I could not see my shots. My first 5 shot group was about 2.5"-3.0" wide but on the same horizontal line (+/- 3/8" vertical). Reading some post here and there, mirage indicates wind intensity and direction. My feeling is that the cold ground being heated up by the sun was causing this heavy mirage. The reason I went with such high power scope was to be able to accurately shoot at long range and be able to spot my shots without having to use a spotting scope.

Heres' my question: does the scope has anything to do with mirage? Or is Mirage affected by the scope quality?

I figure this section should have long range competitor who went through the same questioning. Thanks, Fred.
 
I'm not an optical expert, but I think that if you dial back the power and make sure your parallax is set perfectly that should help. Based on the group you described it doesn't sound like it hindered you too badly.
 
Mirage is Mirage. It is there whether we have a 3k scope or a 1k scope. As Shabazz said, dailing back the power will help. You should be able to dial it back to aboput 1/2 and have better results. There is no way around Mirage and when your are at the highest magnification point of your scope it will be the worst. Quality of glass and optics can only help so much. I don't own a sightron, have messed with a few. From what I have seen and heard, the glass isn't bad so throwing it out,/selling it to get something different will not fix the problem. A lot of the time, guys try and go with the higher mags scopes so that when mirage does hit hard they can dial back their 50x power to 30x or 25x and cut down on the mirage, but they still have a decent amount of magnification to see their targets. Hope this helps, it is what works for me.
 
The more magnification you have, the worse the mirage. Try dialing your power all the way back to 10 and adjust your parralax to get a clear sight picture.
 
Dial back to the highest magnification you can without having mirage if it is all caused by the terrain.

Cover/shade the barrel to deflect barrel heat away from objective lens.

Remove the sunshade so it cannot "trap" or cause any heat waves.

If you have the option, shoot before the sun gets the terrain too hot.
 
skypilot said:
Cover/shade the barrel to deflect barrel heat away from objective lens.
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:agree:

I've got the same model Sightron as the OP on a Savage M12 .223, and had very good results using a 18" x 4" or thereabouts strip of cardboard sitting on top of the barrel to prevent the heat from rising off the barrel thru the line of sight. First range trip with the scope mounted, the mirage coming off the barrel was so bad after about 50 or 70 rounds I thought the scope was defective.

You can also buy a purpose-made plastic version of the concept if you don't dig the bubba/MacGyver look of a strip of cardboard on your otherwise precision instrument - googling "mirage shield" should get you a few retail options. I will probably tire of the cardboard soonish and order something sooner than later, but my cheap side is winning for the moment...

Either way, make sure whatever you use as a heat shield doesn't overhang the muzzle, as the escaping gas will bash the shield about and possibly affect the bullet trajectory in interesting and/or unpredictable ways... I'd leave it an inch or so short of the muzzle, and size it to be a good couple of inches on the shooter's side of the objective lens to keep heat away from the body of the scope as well.

Good luck, and let us know if this helps to solve your problem!
 
Best way is to dial down on the mag. On heavy mirage days, I back to 35X. Once you learn how to shoot with mirage, seeing and adjusting your POI by 1/4" to 1/2" at 1000yds is not hard.

As you gain experience, you will find the ability to see mirage a huge aid in doping conditions and Sightrons offer some of the best glass to make this work.

If you feel you must see "through" mirage, then start saving many dollars and buy either a S&B or MARCH.

The images these high end scopes provide is less affected by mirage offering a clearer image at higher mag (eventually, go high enough and the image will distort similarly)

BUT, the catch is you dont see the mirage and that can nip you in the butt with a missed wind call..... better shoot with a spotting scope.

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
If you feel you must see "through" mirage, then start saving many dollars and buy either a S&B or MARCH.
Jerry
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This is an embarrassingly inaccurate statement! There is not a scope on earth that can see through the mirage regardless of how much money you spend.

The more money you spend on a scope the more clearly you will be able to read the mirage would be more true.

If you have a cheap scope, the image of the mirage will be blurred by comparison to a better scope. That blurring - or lack of sharpness makes it difficult to correctly compensate for the wind effect the mirage is showing you. In this case, good sharp lenses will make all the difference by presenting an accurate image of the mirage=wind conditions present.

BUT...

Make no mistake, the target image will always be distorted by the amount of mirage between you and your target no matter what scope you have.
 
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BadAsMo said:
This is an embarrassingly inaccurate statement! There is not a scope on earth that can see through the mirage regardless of how much money you spend.

The more money you spend on a scope the more clearly you will be able to read the mirage would be more true.

If you have a cheap scope, the image of the mirage will be blurred by comparison to a better scope. That blurring - or lack of sharpness makes it difficult to correctly compensate for the wind effect the mirage is showing you. In this case, good sharp lenses will make all the difference by presenting an accurate image of the mirage=wind conditions present.

BUT...

Make no mistake, the target image will always be distorted by the amount of mirage between you and your target no matter what scope you have.
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YES AND NO BADASSMO (thought it rhymed),

I conducted an extensive test for the last decade on just this problem,

in Tacoma washington for short range Benchrest I found the following

YOU NEED 3 SCOPES TO DEAL WITH THE MIRAGE THROUGHOUT THE DAY FOR SHORT RANGE BR

1. a weaver 36x power for the morning until the mirage gets to a medium density or angle or a medium velocity i.e. running

2. then switch to a Leopold 40x or 45x (testing was with both and found the 45 to be a bit better glass) and then when the mirage got to where it was hard to read the target (AT THAT POINT THE WEAVER WAS COMEPLETELY USELESS AND YOU COULD NOT SEE THE TARGET HARDLY AT ALL BUT STILL SEE THE TARGET FRAME)

3. then switch to a new MARCH 40 POWER , and the mirage was very readable, and when the mirage got quite bad for the march then the following was observed, A. the Leopold could not see the target but the frame was clear enough to use for the purpose of group shooting for record, and B. the weaver you might as well shot with iron sights as the target frame was also not usable

I was on bench 5 with a weaver, bench 6 was a Leopold and bench 7 was Lou Murdica with a March, and I watched both saturday and sunday as the mirage picked up during the day,

VERY ENLIGHTENING (pun intended) and I now know a scope can make a difference,


BUT BUT BUT I was leading until the Weaver could not help with the mirage and then I had another gun with a Leopold that I have switched upon occasion and continued shooting well) then my friend was doing well and then by days end Lou was kicking butt,

the solution you ask, (a march not sure the power 30-55 or so variable would have been the answer as I am led to believe it does not change point of impact wtih change in magnification)

so you are both correct in some aspect,

and a couple of months later when the mirage was manageable for the weaver I set a personal best for a aggregate of 5 shot groups and 5 groups of a .174 with moving backers so I have just a little experience in short range,

your milage may vary for 1000 yard shooting, I am not sure but perhaps it still applies,

that is my input on this question, I hope it helps, not trying to be critical of anyone


Jefferson
 
A very interesting topic for me!!! I am not an optics expert by any means and have often asked about an experience that I have had with optics, that not even the "EXPERTS" have given me a satisfactory answer to. I first started my F-class shooting with an old Leupold 36x scope. In this scope I could read the mirage, even when slight, very well!! however when in the heat of summer, on occasion I could barely use it as I could not dial it back. I have since swithched to a Nightforce variable which has resolved that problem. However when mirage is slight I can't read it nearly as well! So if I had my druthers, I would have my old scope with the ability to back off power. So what is going on?? Is the NF better glass?? and is it not seeing the mirage as well?? Whatever the case, my take on it has always been, that maybe quality glass is not that important when shooting at targets in the daylight??? I WANT to see the mirage!! it is very telltale to what is going on with the wind. I do have a lot of experience with binos for hunting purposes, and can appreciate good glass for low light conditions and long veiwing periods. I find no advantage to this quality (within reason) when target shooting. I want a scope with the right reticle, 1/8min clicks, and very accurate, repeatable, adjustments, no more no less!!!! I have yet to shoot a match in the dark or try too find some camo deers head in the sagebrush :>) or have to count tines on the target. And further to this topic, when the V-Bull is bounceing around in your scope, you better not miss the condition as the shot placement will be off by alot more than the average mirage distortion. The moral of the story is the discussion should be about dial acurracy/repeatability, proper reticle(uncluttered) unless an EXPERT can really talk about mirage perception realitive too glass construction. JMHO

Jefferson!! you scooped me, slow typer!! your experience is far more enlighting that argueing about scope brands and does apply much more to BR than long range! and maybe explaines my experience with the old Leupold scope?? not as good a glass as the NF??????
Marc
 
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I'm having a hard time pulling a clear conclusion from some of these posts, but I think all the scope switching to see or not see mirage is related to depth of field. Scopes with a greater depth of field will be categorically better suited to reading mirage. Depth of field will certainly be reduced with increase in magnification, but the distance between lenses will also have an effect.

Regardless of weather or not you can see and read the mirage, it is there and will at least be evident in the distortion of the image.

There is humidity in the air and that humidity refracts light. That is a mechanical fact that is undisputable.

If you want a scope that will display a perfect mirage free image at 1000 yards, the scope will need to be 1000 yards long.
 
I think spending some time behind a variety of scopes viewing targets will be more enlightening then trying to look at box and wondering how much better all those zeros are going to make you.

There are 2 types of competition shooters - those that want to see mirage and those that don't. ALL want to see the air to figure out conditions.

HOW you get that info is entirely up to you BUT if you dont see the air, you are not going to score well.

I can say with absolutely certainty, a sightron will see mirage BEFORE a MARCH or S&B at the same mag under the same conditions.

That is not a good or bad thing... simply a fact.

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
There are 2 types of competition shooters - those that want to see mirage and those that don't. ALL want to see the air to figure out conditions.
Jerry
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What?????
This statement is a direct contradiction to itself.

Think of mirage this way.... Suppose you are in a room looking at a picture through an aquarium full of water. If the water is clear you can see the image reasonably well but not as clearly as if there was no water in the aquarium. No water in the aquarium example would be like those crystal clear dry days when there is no mirage. Now to replicate the effect of wind and humidity, lets add an air line to the aquarium to create a bunch of bubbles to replicate mirage. This would simulate a typical humid day at the range. Now it does not mater what scope you use, you will not see the picture on the other side of the aquarium clearly because there is a bunch of junk going on between you and the picture you are trying to see. That's what mirage does at the range.

Suppose the picture is 3 feet on the other side of the aquarium and you are looking at the picture with some sort of optical device with a very short depth of field. You will not be able to clearly see the bubbles but the image will still be distorted by the presence of bubbles.

If you look at the picture with an optical device with a great depth of field that allows you to see both the picture and the bubbles reasonably well, that would replicate a scope that would help you read mirage.

For this reason some guys use 2 scopes… One on the rifle plus a spotting scope focused half way to the target to read mirage (or in my example – the bubbles)
 
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I have put diferents scopes side by side at the same power adjustment
falcon, viper pst, SIII, and premier heritage

result with mirage, falcon anv viper pst are pure junk
SIII was prety good and the premier is a little better

what makes the difference is the quality of the contrast

many dont understand the difference between clarity and contrast
 
BadAsMo said:
What?????
This statement is a direct contradiction to itself.

Think of mirage this way.... Suppose you are in a room looking at a picture through an aquarium full of water. If the water is clear you can see the image reasonably well but not as clearly as if there was no water in the aquarium. No water in the aquarium example would be like those crystal clear dry days when there is no mirage. Now to replicate the effect of wind and humidity, lets add an air line to the aquarium to create a bunch of bubbles to replicate mirage. This would simulate a typical humid day at the range. Now it does not mater what scope you use, you will not see the picture on the other side of the aquarium clearly because there is a bunch of junk going on between you and the picture you are trying to see. That's what mirage does at the range.

Suppose the picture is 3 feet on the other side of the aquarium and you are looking at the picture with some sort of optical device with a very short depth of field. You will not be able to clearly see the bubbles but the image will still be distorted by the presence of bubbles.

If you look at the picture with an optical device with a great depth of field that allows you to see both the picture and the bubbles reasonably well, that would replicate a scope that would help you read mirage.

For this reason some guys use 2 scopes… One on the rifle plus a spotting scope focused half way to the target to read mirage (or in my example – the bubbles)
Click to expand...

Now that the theory and effect have been thoroughly debated, what's your solution?
 
358Rooster said:
Now that the theory and effect have been thoroughly debated, what's your solution?
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I don't believe there is a solution 358Rooster.

If you want to read mirage(and I cant imagine why you wouldn't) then you need to have a good clear scope with enough depth of field to see mirage. A trick I learned long ago comes from camera lens aperture adjustment where a small aperture=increased depth of field.

You can make a disk with a hole in the middle that goes in front of the objective lens of the scope to in essence reduce the diameter of the objective lens. In doing that, the depth of field in increased so you can see more mirage. The idea is the lens surface in the center of the lens is flatter to the field of view than the outer edge of the objective lens. This enables the shooter to see an increased depth of field and therefore more of the mirage. This can also be done by cutting a hole in the center of a scope cover. You can experiment with card board or whatever you want to determine the hole size that you prefer before you tear into your butler creeks.

I have 3 different plastic inserts for my competition scopes, each with a different size hole and I put them in between the scope and the pop up scope cover.

Sometimes you will see pictures where snipers cut rectangular slots in the objective lens cover. This is done both for the reason above and to reduce the possibility of light reflecting off the objective lens giving his position away.

apeture.jpg
 
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BadAsMo

I shoot March scopes on all my F-Class rifles. Using them I can see through mirage and get clearer target pictures than most other shooters. Sometimes when I have come off the line and start talking to the other shooters I wonder if I have just shot in the same conditions because I didn't see what they were talking about. I also use the restricted apertures in some conditions. I have won several matches simply because I can "see" the target better. However, I have also lost matches because the mirage is not as apparent to me and I have ignored it costing me points. Now I am considering setting up two rifles. One for light twitchy mirage conditions and one for standard conditions. In the light twitchy conditions I would choose a NF or Sightron in order to see the wind changes bettter and the other would be the March's in order to see the target clearer.

I just went through this discussion regarding the purchase of a highend spotting scope and ended up buying a high quality scope with standard lenses. I have found that when I use the combination of extremely good scope glass and normal spotting scope lenses I can get a very true reading of what is happening.

My 2 cents worth.
 
How well then, does taking your optic a bit out of focus work, to see mirage? I've read about this and have actually noticed it while trying to clear up my target picture but I can't say as I've ever intentionally put it into practise. Seems to me, the guys who talk about better glass to "see through" mirage should not have a problem detecting / reading mirage by taking it a tad O.O.F. Yet the same guys (shouldn't paint you all with the same brush) talk about using an optic of perceived lesser quality to get a better read.

Does this trick just not work that well? Or is this a falicy? I'm beginning to wonder because none of you have mentioned it yet, that I recall.

Rooster
 
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