MN in 45 70
- Thread starter Fremen
- Start date
- Location
- South of your border
How interesting. Also back when I was shooting Mosins I noticed a Norinco 213(tokerev) mag fit in the mag well. It would be cool if someone made a 7.62 x 25 Pederson Device for one...
the 450 marlin is a better choice
super easy to covert I am looking for a messed up mosin right now to do it with.There is a step by step with pictures on the weapons guild forum. all it takes is some very minor mag modifications and a barrel
super easy to covert I am looking for a messed up mosin right now to do it with.There is a step by step with pictures on the weapons guild forum. all it takes is some very minor mag modifications and a barrel
- Location
- Where the sun shines
I'd take one; I like the heavy snub-nosed look of them. Sure, I love seeing Milsurps stay alive as they are, but this is a good few steps above Bubba's work.
Right classy Thunderguns, these.
Plus, you can't throw a stick without hitting a Mosin these days, and being able to buy it afterwards with your pocket change. Good rifles for neat projects like this.
Right classy Thunderguns, these.
Plus, you can't throw a stick without hitting a Mosin these days, and being able to buy it afterwards with your pocket change. Good rifles for neat projects like this.
Yup, I can remember G33/40s at $35 a pop.
Common as dirt.
Unfired Kar 98k, in grease, $27.50 each or $249 a dozen.
Supply will just never end.
Kar 43 at $60 and standing in the racks for months before they went out the door.
That was 45 years ago.
Today it's Moisin-Nagants that are common as dirt.
What will it be like in another 45 years?
.
Common as dirt.
Unfired Kar 98k, in grease, $27.50 each or $249 a dozen.
Supply will just never end.
Kar 43 at $60 and standing in the racks for months before they went out the door.
That was 45 years ago.
Today it's Moisin-Nagants that are common as dirt.
What will it be like in another 45 years?
.
- Location
- Where the sun shines
Number made: Approximately 150,000
Number made: Approximately 14.6 million.
Number made: Approximately 400,000.
Mosin-Nagant; number made: 37 million plus.
Of all the old milsurp rifles out there, the Mosin is the most survivable, thanks to the Soviet habit of not throwing anything away and sheer resiliancy of the Mosin itself. It can handle a few bubbas having their way with them, and in 45 years the good collectors who have kept the old war monsters safe and clean will reap the benefits.
Take the common ones with the worn barrels and beat up wood and do something interesting with them.
Just to break it down.
37 million total.
7 million mosin nagant model 1891
5 million Dragoon/Cossak M91's
13 million mosin nagant model 1891/30's
9 million Mosin Carbines
Might not be the most accurate info, but there are enough to arm all of Canada!
37 million total.
7 million mosin nagant model 1891
5 million Dragoon/Cossak M91's
13 million mosin nagant model 1891/30's
9 million Mosin Carbines
Might not be the most accurate info, but there are enough to arm all of Canada!
Yup, lots of them..... and they are the LAST major milsurp which ever will become available AND legal for most folks. Everything newer is either semi-auto or selective-fire and we all know how much our Glorious Leaders love to restrict, fold, bend, spindle and mutilate those.
And there have been a few losses in the last 120 years of military/politico unpleasantnesses, so it likely won't be 37 million any longer. What we are seeing right now are the left-overs, the survivors. You can't judge how many still exist by looking at how many were made. An example: there were 30,000 (or 300,000, depending on your source) .43 calibre Lee rifles made for China.... and no more than a handful survive..... unless there's a warehouse filled with the things. I don't know, but I sure want one. What about the 6.8x57 Mausers, also made for China? Love to try one of those out: a true .270 that beat the Yanks (and Jack O'Connor) by 25 years! Gotta be a whole bunch around, but I can't find any.
If official status or production figures were the sole indication of available quantity, there would be some strange things happening that aren't happening. The Armaguerra 39 was the OFFICIAL rifle of the Italian Army in War Two..... but how many of them are running around today? I have one, serial number 38, but I'm willing to bet that there aren't half a dozen more in Canada and there are damned few anywhere else..... even though it was the OFFICIAL rifle.
The word we are looking at is "attrition".
This is why an UNCUT 1910 Ross is going for $1200 and a chopped one still can be found for under $100. The SNIDER was the most common rifle in the world; it armed most of the world at one point. You sure don't find good Sniders now at $3 apiece, or even the $6 apiece that I can remember from when I was a kid; my first good Snider set me back $25, which was a solid week's pay..... and they haven't got any cheaper.
All I'm saying is don't let a temporary market glut confuse you. Remember, those $60 Kar 43s were all unfired, packed in grease. Alan Lever had racks of the things, but I'm willing to bet that they are gone now. Me, I want one. I'm offering $60 cash money, even if you've fired the thing!
Howzat for generosity?
.
And there have been a few losses in the last 120 years of military/politico unpleasantnesses, so it likely won't be 37 million any longer. What we are seeing right now are the left-overs, the survivors. You can't judge how many still exist by looking at how many were made. An example: there were 30,000 (or 300,000, depending on your source) .43 calibre Lee rifles made for China.... and no more than a handful survive..... unless there's a warehouse filled with the things. I don't know, but I sure want one. What about the 6.8x57 Mausers, also made for China? Love to try one of those out: a true .270 that beat the Yanks (and Jack O'Connor) by 25 years! Gotta be a whole bunch around, but I can't find any.
If official status or production figures were the sole indication of available quantity, there would be some strange things happening that aren't happening. The Armaguerra 39 was the OFFICIAL rifle of the Italian Army in War Two..... but how many of them are running around today? I have one, serial number 38, but I'm willing to bet that there aren't half a dozen more in Canada and there are damned few anywhere else..... even though it was the OFFICIAL rifle.
The word we are looking at is "attrition".
This is why an UNCUT 1910 Ross is going for $1200 and a chopped one still can be found for under $100. The SNIDER was the most common rifle in the world; it armed most of the world at one point. You sure don't find good Sniders now at $3 apiece, or even the $6 apiece that I can remember from when I was a kid; my first good Snider set me back $25, which was a solid week's pay..... and they haven't got any cheaper.
All I'm saying is don't let a temporary market glut confuse you. Remember, those $60 Kar 43s were all unfired, packed in grease. Alan Lever had racks of the things, but I'm willing to bet that they are gone now. Me, I want one. I'm offering $60 cash money, even if you've fired the thing!
Howzat for generosity?
.
It always makes me ARRRRRRRRRRR when I see those posts.
First think about gun laws at that time, and not just in Canada worldwide please. Price of gas at that time. Supply and demand. Lastly inflation in Canada runs at about 3% a year. I can give you a calculation on how much it should cost now. I guarantee not $60.
Cheers
First think about gun laws at that time, and not just in Canada worldwide please. Price of gas at that time. Supply and demand. Lastly inflation in Canada runs at about 3% a year. I can give you a calculation on how much it should cost now. I guarantee not $60.
Cheers
Just did calculation for fun of 3.5% inflation
This value of 1966 dollars translated into 2011 based on inflation alone and only taking small rate of 3.5 % 1980 saw inflation into 18% and 1990th into 7%
Unfired Kar 98k, in grease, $101.81
Kar 43 at $222.14
Now add government permits, transportation cost, investment opportunity cost,rental of warehouse space, overhead (electricity,heat,alarm,insurance,advertisement cost,business license cost), duty and taxes of today's Canada you will not be "I'm offering $60 cash money"
Again if you understand meaning of 1966 dollars what would 200 dollars buy you then? We the gun dealers , importers or distributors are not bad people it simple calculation of supply and demand plus inflation and other cost. Do not think that there is millions and millions mosins or k98 or K43 left out there. Prices will only go up with time I guarantee it.
Below is inflation chart of Canada from 1989.
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
2011 2.3458% 2.1626% 3.2872% 3.2759%
2010 1.8584% 1.5817% 1.4035% 1.8437% 1.3949% 0.9557% 1.8309% 1.7437% 1.9180% 2.4433% 1.9965% 2.3519% 1.7775%
2009 1.0733% 1.4260% 1.2433% 0.3524% 0.0873% -0.2600% -0.9499% -0.7785% -0.8643% 0.0873% 0.9641% 1.3239% 0.2989%
2008 2.1938% 1.8149% 1.3501% 1.7025% 2.2302% 3.1278% 3.3929% 3.4915% 3.3959% 2.5986% 1.9660% 1.1607% 2.3706%
2007 1.1091% 2.0370% 2.3020% 2.1978% 2.1878% 2.1918% 2.1898% 1.7304% 2.4725% 2.3853% 2.4725% 2.3766% 2.1381%
2006 2.7540% 2.1760% 2.1637% 2.4390% 2.8116% 2.4322% 2.3343% 2.1395% 0.7380% 1.0195% 1.3928% 1.6729% 2.0023%
2005 1.9361% 2.1256% 2.3099% 2.4015% 1.6190% 1.7127% 2.0000% 2.5763% 3.2381% 2.5665% 1.9886% 2.0873% 2.2139%
2004 1.2745% 0.6809% 0.7759% 1.6602% 2.4390% 2.5366% 2.3392% 1.8465% 1.8429% 2.3346% 2.4248% 2.1318% 1.8569%
2003 4.5082% 4.6843% 4.2467% 2.9146% 2.8084% 2.6026% 2.0896% 1.9822% 2.1804% 1.5810% 1.5764% 2.0772% 2.7585%
2002 1.3499% 1.4463% 1.8538% 1.7382% 1.1156% 1.2158% 2.1341% 2.5407% 2.3327% 3.1600% 4.4239% 3.7988% 2.2585%
2001 2.9947% 2.8693% 2.4262% 3.4921% 3.8988% 3.3508% 2.7140% 2.8213% 2.6015% 1.8692% 0.6211% 0.7239% 2.5251%
2000 2.1858% 2.7293% 3.0435% 2.1622% 2.3732% 2.7987% 2.9001% 2.5723% 2.6709% 2.7748% 3.2051% 3.2017% 2.7194%
1999 0.6601% 0.6593% 0.9879% 1.6484% 1.5334% 1.6411% 1.8600% 2.0788% 2.6316% 2.2926% 2.1834% 2.6287% 1.7348%
1998 1.1123% 0.9989% 0.9978% 0.8869% 1.1074% 0.9945% 0.9945% 0.8830% 0.6623% 1.1038% 1.2155% 0.9956% 0.9959%
1997 2.1591% 2.2701% 1.9209% 1.6911% 1.4607% 1.6854% 1.6854% 1.7978% 1.6835% 1.4558% 0.8919% 0.7804% 1.6213%
1996 1.6166% 1.2644% 1.4908% 1.3714% 1.4823% 1.4823% 1.2514% 1.4823% 1.4806% 1.8244% 1.9318% 2.1640% 1.5705%
1995 0.5807% 1.8735% 2.1077% 2.4590% 2.9343% 2.6932% 2.5671% 2.2145% 2.2119% 2.3337% 2.0882% 1.7381% 2.1488%
1994 1.2941% 0.1172% 0.2347% 0.2347% -0.2342% 0.0000% 0.1168% 0.1167% 0.2334% -0.2328% -0.1159% 0.2323% 0.1655%
1993 2.0408% 2.4010% 1.9139% 1.7921% 1.9093% 1.6667% 1.6627% 1.7815% 1.7815% 1.8980% 1.8890% 1.6529% 1.8651%
1992 1.5854% 1.5854% 1.5796% 1.7011% 1.3301% 1.0830% 1.2019% 1.0804% 1.3237% 1.5663% 1.6807% 2.1713% 1.4901%
1991 6.9100% 6.2176% 6.1935% 6.1935% 6.1617% 6.2660% 5.9873% 5.9796% 5.4569% 4.4025% 4.1250% 3.7547% 5.6260%
1990 5.5021% 5.4645% 5.2989% 5.0136% 4.4236% 4.4059% 4.1114% 4.1060% 4.2328% 4.7431% 5.1248% 4.9934% 4.7805%
This value of 1966 dollars translated into 2011 based on inflation alone and only taking small rate of 3.5 % 1980 saw inflation into 18% and 1990th into 7%
Unfired Kar 98k, in grease, $101.81
Kar 43 at $222.14
Now add government permits, transportation cost, investment opportunity cost,rental of warehouse space, overhead (electricity,heat,alarm,insurance,advertisement cost,business license cost), duty and taxes of today's Canada you will not be "I'm offering $60 cash money"
Again if you understand meaning of 1966 dollars what would 200 dollars buy you then? We the gun dealers , importers or distributors are not bad people it simple calculation of supply and demand plus inflation and other cost. Do not think that there is millions and millions mosins or k98 or K43 left out there. Prices will only go up with time I guarantee it.
Below is inflation chart of Canada from 1989.
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
2011 2.3458% 2.1626% 3.2872% 3.2759%
2010 1.8584% 1.5817% 1.4035% 1.8437% 1.3949% 0.9557% 1.8309% 1.7437% 1.9180% 2.4433% 1.9965% 2.3519% 1.7775%
2009 1.0733% 1.4260% 1.2433% 0.3524% 0.0873% -0.2600% -0.9499% -0.7785% -0.8643% 0.0873% 0.9641% 1.3239% 0.2989%
2008 2.1938% 1.8149% 1.3501% 1.7025% 2.2302% 3.1278% 3.3929% 3.4915% 3.3959% 2.5986% 1.9660% 1.1607% 2.3706%
2007 1.1091% 2.0370% 2.3020% 2.1978% 2.1878% 2.1918% 2.1898% 1.7304% 2.4725% 2.3853% 2.4725% 2.3766% 2.1381%
2006 2.7540% 2.1760% 2.1637% 2.4390% 2.8116% 2.4322% 2.3343% 2.1395% 0.7380% 1.0195% 1.3928% 1.6729% 2.0023%
2005 1.9361% 2.1256% 2.3099% 2.4015% 1.6190% 1.7127% 2.0000% 2.5763% 3.2381% 2.5665% 1.9886% 2.0873% 2.2139%
2004 1.2745% 0.6809% 0.7759% 1.6602% 2.4390% 2.5366% 2.3392% 1.8465% 1.8429% 2.3346% 2.4248% 2.1318% 1.8569%
2003 4.5082% 4.6843% 4.2467% 2.9146% 2.8084% 2.6026% 2.0896% 1.9822% 2.1804% 1.5810% 1.5764% 2.0772% 2.7585%
2002 1.3499% 1.4463% 1.8538% 1.7382% 1.1156% 1.2158% 2.1341% 2.5407% 2.3327% 3.1600% 4.4239% 3.7988% 2.2585%
2001 2.9947% 2.8693% 2.4262% 3.4921% 3.8988% 3.3508% 2.7140% 2.8213% 2.6015% 1.8692% 0.6211% 0.7239% 2.5251%
2000 2.1858% 2.7293% 3.0435% 2.1622% 2.3732% 2.7987% 2.9001% 2.5723% 2.6709% 2.7748% 3.2051% 3.2017% 2.7194%
1999 0.6601% 0.6593% 0.9879% 1.6484% 1.5334% 1.6411% 1.8600% 2.0788% 2.6316% 2.2926% 2.1834% 2.6287% 1.7348%
1998 1.1123% 0.9989% 0.9978% 0.8869% 1.1074% 0.9945% 0.9945% 0.8830% 0.6623% 1.1038% 1.2155% 0.9956% 0.9959%
1997 2.1591% 2.2701% 1.9209% 1.6911% 1.4607% 1.6854% 1.6854% 1.7978% 1.6835% 1.4558% 0.8919% 0.7804% 1.6213%
1996 1.6166% 1.2644% 1.4908% 1.3714% 1.4823% 1.4823% 1.2514% 1.4823% 1.4806% 1.8244% 1.9318% 2.1640% 1.5705%
1995 0.5807% 1.8735% 2.1077% 2.4590% 2.9343% 2.6932% 2.5671% 2.2145% 2.2119% 2.3337% 2.0882% 1.7381% 2.1488%
1994 1.2941% 0.1172% 0.2347% 0.2347% -0.2342% 0.0000% 0.1168% 0.1167% 0.2334% -0.2328% -0.1159% 0.2323% 0.1655%
1993 2.0408% 2.4010% 1.9139% 1.7921% 1.9093% 1.6667% 1.6627% 1.7815% 1.7815% 1.8980% 1.8890% 1.6529% 1.8651%
1992 1.5854% 1.5854% 1.5796% 1.7011% 1.3301% 1.0830% 1.2019% 1.0804% 1.3237% 1.5663% 1.6807% 2.1713% 1.4901%
1991 6.9100% 6.2176% 6.1935% 6.1935% 6.1617% 6.2660% 5.9873% 5.9796% 5.4569% 4.4025% 4.1250% 3.7547% 5.6260%
1990 5.5021% 5.4645% 5.2989% 5.0136% 4.4236% 4.4059% 4.1114% 4.1060% 4.2328% 4.7431% 5.1248% 4.9934% 4.7805%
Exactly what I am saying.
There is a FINITE supply, which is on the markets right now.
We cannot let that fact (the current abundance at low prices) confuse us as to the fact that the supply is limited. When these are gone, there only will be small bunches coming in, if the **^%$)# UN doesn't have them all shredded.
The dealers aren't the bad guys, not by any means. I have a Canadian half-dollar in my pocket right now. The Government paid 30 cents to have it made, put it out on the street at 50 cents and, right now, it is worth $15 for SCRAP. That's called INFLATION and debasemnt of the currency. It doesn't ADD, it MULTIPLIES. There is a chapter on it in my book "Call It Extortion!" (out of print).
But I do see what you mean, in part. I am willing to go to $220 for a Kar '43..... even one that has been fired. Anyone have one or sale at that price?
I rather doubt it.
So do think twice before you start butchering those cheap Moisin-Nagants. Once they are gone, there will be no more.
.
There is a FINITE supply, which is on the markets right now.
We cannot let that fact (the current abundance at low prices) confuse us as to the fact that the supply is limited. When these are gone, there only will be small bunches coming in, if the **^%$)# UN doesn't have them all shredded.
The dealers aren't the bad guys, not by any means. I have a Canadian half-dollar in my pocket right now. The Government paid 30 cents to have it made, put it out on the street at 50 cents and, right now, it is worth $15 for SCRAP. That's called INFLATION and debasemnt of the currency. It doesn't ADD, it MULTIPLIES. There is a chapter on it in my book "Call It Extortion!" (out of print).
But I do see what you mean, in part. I am willing to go to $220 for a Kar '43..... even one that has been fired. Anyone have one or sale at that price?
I rather doubt it.
So do think twice before you start butchering those cheap Moisin-Nagants. Once they are gone, there will be no more.
.
