MN in 45 70

smellie

I have to agree sort of. I think that cutting up a numbers matching mint rifle is dumb. But modifying a previously sportered essentially worthless POS. I would (and have) done that because not all of these rifles are priceless relics. and this is selfish but I have my five untouched mosins that will never be cut. In my opinion this rifle is too great a machine not to use it's capabilities in a modified form.
 
smellie said:
So do think twice before you start butchering those cheap Moisin-Nagants. Once they are gone, there will be no more.
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Okay, so here you find a Mosin. The bore is shot out and despite the best reloading efforts, you'd be lucky to hit a 3' target at 100 yards. Grouping is hopeless, the wood is cracked and broken, the metal is pitted.

Do you just hang it on the wall as a conversation piece? In my eyes that is the worst thing you can do to an old warrior like a Mosin. They were rifles meant to keep fighting to matter the hardship, no matter the abuse. These aren't dandied up Cowboy classics with case-hardened colouring, no damascus barrels here that need to be treated carefully incase they grenade.

Mosins are tools of war, built to take on anything and everything and walk out the otherside.

Keep the pristine ones clean, keep them safe and as they are because they deserve it, but the Mosins that aren't able to stand tall as they were, change them into something new that can live on as a lead-flinger.

The Mosin-Nagant is a rifle built to shoot - it is disrespectful to hide it behind glass.
 
There was a day when I would have gone all righteous over someone who sporterized a milsurp, but it's their property and they can do as they please. It's not a moral issue.

For those who do, it never makes economic sense, i.e. it might mean pouring $500 into a $400 gun to make it into a $400 gun, or in the case of a Mosin Nagant, $500 into a $150 gun to make it into a $300 gun, but that not much different than most "projects" - check out some of the M305's.

However, if someone posts a sporterized milsurp in the Milsurp Forum and expects praise, then they deserve the flaming they'll get. Over to the Gunsmithing Forum boys.
 
Andy said:
There was a day when I would have gone all righteous over someone who sporterized a milsurp, but it's their property and they can do as they please. It's not a moral issue.

For those who do, it never makes economic sense, i.e. it might mean pouring $500 into a $400 gun to make it into a $400 gun, or in the case of a Mosin Nagant, $500 into a $150 gun to make it into a $300 gun, but that not much different than most "projects" - check out some of the M305's.

However, if someone posts a sporterized milsurp in the Milsurp Forum and expects praise, then they deserve the flaming they'll get. Over to the Gunsmithing Forum boys.
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All this talk about $500 into a $ 150 gun is in my opinion missing the point. a custom rifle made to be exactly what you want is a possesion beyond money
 
mg4201 said:
All this talk about $500 into a $ 150 gun is in my opinion missing the point. a custom rifle made to be exactly what you want is a possesion beyond money
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It better be - people will do things that make no economic sense because they want to. I'm pretty sure we're in violent agreement on that.

If someone wanted a "good hunting rifle" they'd be ill-advised to take (for example) a P14, and gunsmith it to the point where it was a good hunting rifle. Much better to buy a hunting rifle. If it had to be a P14 (or just something in the "magical" 303 Brit), then it makes sense to sporter one already bubba'd. I actually hunt with a nicely sporterized P14 that someone made into a "possession beyond money", and sold it to me a couple of years later for $250, and I appreciated them underwriting my rifle.

Again, it's not a moral issue, it's an economic issue. I'd advise against it unless someone just had to have a unique sportered milsurp at any cost, with full knowledge that they'd never get their money back if they ever chose to sell - but only if asked.
 
This ain't a Mosin Nagant but this is my bolt action 45-70. I did not sporterize it! I merely bought a pre-butchered P14 reworked for the caliber.

 
I bubba'd a 1891/30 one time that was drilled and tapped for a scope, mis-matching and stockless. The gun was about $35 I believe and I added a red dot, no drill mount on the rear sight, had the barrel cut to 19", parkerized everything and put it in a $100 sporter stock. The project kept me busy over a winter.

It was fun to shoot, (fireballs) and pretty accurate for a red dot. I figure all in all I put about $280 and 20 hours into it. Ended up trading it with a SKS-D for an immaculate Breda Garand. :)

I have also converted bubba's back to original on several occasions and have also "made" a couple nice deer rifles from Bubba Enfield No4's.

I agree with Andy. It is completely up to the owner to do what he wants to HIS gun. I do agree it is a shame to ruin a collector piece but if someone wants to do ti, then it is their right to do so.

My only caveat is (Thanks again Claven2) is that if you know of someone who is about to Bubba a good milsurp, we all have the obligation to the milsurp gods to try and reason with him. I mention Claven2 as he convinced a chap in a gun shop not to have a gunsmith convert a DCRA No4 to a hunting rifle. Claven2 convinced him to put the rifle up for consignment sale and take the proceeds to buy a new bolt gun. I am the lucky SOB that picked up the DCRA for $500 and it is one hell of a nice piece. It has LB and C-Arrow markings everywhere and a LB marked milled rear sight.
 
He Gave that Tomato Stake a second lease on life...I think its neat. Like its been mentioned you practically trip over them and its not really a big deal unless its collectible. The 45-70 conversion makes sense its already designed to shoot Rimmed cartridges....no need to mess around with the bolt face / extractor etc. As a matter of fact Im going out to shoot my No.4 Mk1 in 45-70 today (no collectible rifles were harmed in that conversion).
 
Pathfinder said:
He Gave that Tomato Stake a second lease on life...I think its neat. Like its been mentioned you practically trip over them and its not really a big deal unless its collectible. The 45-70 conversion makes sense its already designed to shoot Rimmed cartridges....no need to mess around with the bolt face / extractor etc. As a matter of fact Im going out to shoot my No.4 Mk1 in 45-70 today (no collectible rifles were harmed in that conversion).
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Well you do need to open up the bolt face and cut the extractor a tiny bit; they 45-70 is a wee bit bigger than the 303 Brit.
 
Pathfinder said:
You're right about the MN, still a lot less work than re-working to 450 marlin. The bolt face on a No.4 is just fine :D
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Oh right! Yeah the Lees have wide open bolt faces.

I'd still take it in 45-70, you can always reload to your heart's content at or even slightly past 450 Marlin power.
 
Andy said:
It better be - people will do things that make no economic sense because they want to. I'm pretty sure we're in violent agreement on that.

If someone wanted a "good hunting rifle" they'd be ill-advised to take (for example) a P14, and gunsmith it to the point where it was a good hunting rifle. Much better to buy a hunting rifle. If it had to be a P14 (or just something in the "magical" 303 Brit), then it makes sense to sporter one already bubba'd. I actually hunt with a nicely sporterized P14 that someone made into a "possession beyond money", and sold it to me a couple of years later for $250, and I appreciated them underwriting my rifle.

Again, it's not a moral issue, it's an economic issue. I'd advise against it unless someone just had to have a unique sportered milsurp at any cost, with full knowledge that they'd never get their money back if they ever chose to sell - but only if asked.
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for me it is not about the money because any joe with a mastercard can have any new rifle that they want but making a rifle that is exactly what you want, yourself a stock that fits only your hand and puts your face exactly where it needs to be with the bolt handle the shape and size and location that you want. better that that for me is to rescue a rifle that is messed up and rusting away. No machine that helped save the world (or enslave it in the case of a mauser) deserves that.
 
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