MOA vs MRAD sub 100 yards

D

-Doug-

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I’ve been using MOA scopes hunting.
The only time I dial is when first setting up the scope.
Now however I’m getting into 22 matches and people seem to dial a bunch more.


Any advantage of a MOA vs an MRAD?
Most people are saying shooting in mils is easier (I’m still confused by it since I’m not use to it)
 
Mils and MOA are the same thing. They measure angles. If you are using the scope properly, it doesn’t matter which you use. There is an argument that Mils is more relatable to metric folks while MOA appeals to imperial folks. That statement just proves they aren’t using the scope properly.

The only two things to consider is this
1. If you shoot with others, who may be spotting for you, it may be beneficial to use what they are using so you are speaking the same language.
2. Most Mils scopes adjust .1mil per click. Most MOA adjust .25MOA per click. If you make the conversation, .25moa is a finer adjustment than .1 mil. It makes more of a difference at shorter ranges. I can notice the difference only at 50 yards or less. Otherwise the difference is not noticeable. But it exists.
 
I’m just thinking that since I already think I’m yards inches and feet I’d stick with MOA.
“How big is that plate down there…8” how far maybe 75 yards”

Some people say Mils is faster and easier to dial.
Since I haven’t used it I don’t know.
 
FFP MRAD scope , 1 click is 1 cm at any range on any power .

A SFP MOA scope , well I just can't figure quickly what 1 click is.
1/4 of 1.047 inches at 100 yards at the highest power.
 
skwerl said:
FFP MRAD scope , 1 click is 1 cm at any range on any power .

A SFP MOA scope , well I just can't figure quickly what 1 click is.
1/4 of 1.047 inches at 100 yards at the highest power.
Click to expand...

Wow.


Unit on angular measurent.

There are some great explainer videos on YouTube.
 
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I prefer mils.

Most important thing is to match your reticle and turrets.

I find base 10 easier to work with as its 10 clicks instead of 4

1.2 Mils =12 clicks

2 mils = 20 clicks

Etc.


Not 4/8/12 etc.

Also unless you need very precise click values (1/8moa) I find distance shooting in Mils significantly more streamlined
 
So for example:
-my 22 is sighted in to 50yards
-I know I have a 2.5” drop at 75 yards
-I know I have a 8” drop at 100 yards

Using a MOA scope it’s easy for me at 100 (8” = 8 MOA or 32x 1/4” clicks most scopes have marks for each moa)
At 75 yards it becomes more tricky with MOA for me since 1 click is no long 1/4 inch. How is this process made any faster with a Mil scope?

By the way I’m not arguing for MOA I’m just asking since I don’t know and want to get other peoples opinion.
I appreciate the replies!

Thanks
Doug
 
Your language is inconsistent. You are speaking in inches and MOA. I think of my drop as being .2 mil, not 2cm. That way I’m not mixing angular measurement with distance measurement.
 
-Doug- said:
So for example:
-my 22 is sighted in to 50yards
-I know I have a 2.5” drop at 75 yards
-I know I have a 8” drop at 100 yards

Using a MOA scope it’s easy for me at 100 (8” = 8 MOA or 32x 1/4” clicks most scopes have marks for each moa)
At 75 yards it becomes more tricky with MOA for me since 1 click is no long 1/4 inch. How is this process made any faster with a Mil scope?

By the way I’m not arguing for MOA I’m just asking since I don’t know and want to get other peoples opinion.
I appreciate the replies!

Thanks
Doug
Click to expand...

Like Frankie said, using an FFP scope think of your drop in angles, not distance. I’m dialing 1.7 mils up at 89M when zeroed at 50M. Like others have said, base 10 (mils) is quicker and simpler for me. If you are looking at Rimfire prs style shooting, expect to be reaching out to 300+M occasionally. My dope says 16.9 MRAD to reach there. That’s 57MOA. I would say the majority of Rimfire guts out that far is MRAD, so it’s simpler to use the same. The Vortex Venom is the best FFP Mil/Mil option in its price range right now.
 
As to your original MOA vs MIL at 100yd, I would say MOA if you are shooting precision. 1/8" or 1/4" (depending on turrets) per click at 100yds where as Mils gives approximately 3/8".

I just shot a 200yd precision shoot with a MIL scope and had to hold below the bull because the Mil clicks were over or under bullseye. That being said I can say that using Mils for varying distances with large targets would be my preference and MOA for precision shooting.
 
-Doug- said:
At 75 yards it becomes more tricky with MOA for me since 1 click is no long 1/4 inch. How is this process made any faster with a Mil scope?

Doug
Click to expand...

Hi Doug,
A long response to your question, but hope this helps about "why" working in mils may be faster. Assuming FFP (or if a SFP use the maximum mag for a SFP or manufacturer's designated mag for milling):

If you can use the range distance in meters, then work in mm and its really easy to instantly convert to cm in your brain, e.g.:

e.g. 1: 75m and one MRAD click 0.1 = 75 x .1 = 7.5mm, or 0.75 cm. (A simple decimal place shift without any division needed)

For an imperial measured range to targets in a match, convert the distances before the match starts. For example, 25 yards = 22.9m, 50 yards = 45.7m, 75 yards = 68.6m, 100 yards = 91.4m.

e.g. 2: 68.6m x 0.1 MRAD (one click) = 6.86mm, or 0.7cm.

However I am over 60 so I learned all measurement in inches and I think and see inches. What I find challenging when using MRAD scopes is visualizing POI shift (or miss) distance in cm, because my brain locks onto inches. For example at 100 yards I can visualize a miss of e.g. 8 inches. But what the heck is 8 inches in cm/mm? My method: Since 1 inch = 2.54 cm, I use a rough conversion factor of 2.5. I use the mental method of doubling the inches number, then adding half of the inches number. Double it and add half of it.

e.g. 3: 8 inches at 100 yards, how much in cm?: double 8 = 16, then take half of 8 = 4, then add them: 16 + 4 = 20cm, or 200mm.

BTW I am not good at this stuff under pressure - my old imperial calibrated brain often locks up and I tend to fail. But I purchased MRAD scopes deliberately to force myself to learn on the fly, and its good to exercise the brain in my older age. :)
 
Great explanation Biologist.
My brain thinks in yards and inches but I can see how the Mil system would work well for those that think in meters and cm.
 
All this talk of conversions and thinking in metric or imperial is confusing. I shot MOA exclusively when I started and thought in inches and yards. Then realized none of those values matter. Switched to Mils in FFP and don't ever talk about CM or MM. I range my distance, get my firing solution and then fire. If adjustments need to be made, I use the ruler in front of my eye to get on target. No conversions or calculations
 
skwerl said:
FFP MRAD scope , 1 click is 1 cm at any range on any power .

A SFP MOA scope , well I just can't figure quickly what 1 click is.
1/4 of 1.047 inches at 100 yards at the highest power.
Click to expand...

Your understanding is abysmal.

FFP MRAD scope , 1 click is 1 cm at any range on any power .

No, just no. Not even close. If the scope is .1 Mil clicks, then 1 click is equal to 1/10000 of the distance you are shooting. That does equal 1cm at 100m, but its also 10cm at 1000m, 3.75cm at 375m, and 0.41712 in. at 347.6 ft. Power does not influence the adjustment made per click and has nothing to with whether the scope is SFP or FFP.

A SFP MOA scope , well I just can't figure quickly what 1 click is.
1/4 of 1.047 inches at 100 yards at the highest power.

Most normal humans simply say that 1/4moa at 100 yards is 1/4", which is less than 0.5% error. If you're shooting at 1" grid squares, then it should be pretty easy to figure out the correction amount. Again, click adjustment, power, and focal location are utterly unrelated. the click adjustment is always 1/4 MOA (or 1/2, 1/8, etc) regardless of power or reticle. The subtensions on a given SFP reticle are only accurate at a specific power, but that is not always the highest power. If the scope is less than 20X power, then the reticle likely will be correct at max power. Anything over that, and manufacturers tend to make it correct at 60-75% of max power (ex. 18 in my 6-24 Vortex)
 
Tough decision for me to make here.
I am surprised by the large number of people (the majority) that are recommending a mil scope rather than MOA.
A lot of guys I spoke with that went MOA say they are fine with it but wish they went mil.
I think my issue is that the outlaw events set everything up in yards, plate sizes are measured in inches, I think of drop in inches not cm.

But at the end of the day from what I gather most people just learn that their bullet drops X distance at X range that is either going to be Xmil or Xmoa. Some are saying it’s easier to remember 1.2mil rather than 4moa at 100 yards (if that’s even right)

So basically get either or learn it and learn what my clicks should be at the various ranges I shoot regularly
 
Remember that MOA and MRAD (MILs) are angular units of measurement and inches and cms are linear units of measurement. In modern times we have learned that linear measurements really have no place on the range. In the end, it doesnt matter if you go MOA or MRAD, however if you play a fast paced game where corrections need to be made quickly, I highly recommend an FFP scope, with this you can see your error--provided you can see where the bullet landed--and use your reticle to make a measurement to correct for the next shot. Don't look at the missed shot and say "that was 4 inches low and 3 inches right", look at it and use the reticle in whatever angular unit of measurement it is calibrated for and say "thats 2 1/4 MOA low and 3/4 MOA right", then apply that exact correction to your turrets or use the reticle to hold the correction.

I see all too often people get caught on a stage and time out because they were trying to convert inches to MOA and they just run out of time. Either MOA or MRAD will work, it takes maybe one or two range sessions to get on to it, learn it, commit to it, and forget linear unit of measuremnt when you go shooting.
 
-Doug- said:
Tough decision for me to make here.
I am surprised by the large number of people (the majority) that are recommending a mil scope rather than MOA.
A lot of guys I spoke with that went MOA say they are fine with it but wish they went mil.
I think my issue is that the outlaw events set everything up in yards, plate sizes are measured in inches, I think of drop in inches not cm.

But at the end of the day from what I gather most people just learn that their bullet drops X distance at X range that is either going to be Xmil or Xmoa. Some are saying it’s easier to remember 1.2mil rather than 4moa at 100 yards (if that’s even right)

So basically get either or learn it and learn what my clicks should be at the various ranges I shoot regularly
Click to expand...

In PRS style matches, MIL is the most popular but not for any significant reason.

It makes absolutely no difference which one you pick (MOA or MILs) from a performance perspective.

Go with what you are most familiar with is my advice. Nothing will screw with your head more than mixing and matching between MILs on one rifle and MOA on another.

Make your choice and standardize all your rifles to that.

Guys will tell you a click is a click and its just a number... and that is true if you are just looking at tables or a ballistic calculator.

If you have internalized drops and wind calls to a certain unit, it will be far more difficult to change and not worth the effort.

If a young guy was new to shooting, simply flip a coin.
 
Just my 2 cents. Mils or MOA makes no difference for known distances. Whatever your brain finds easier to use.

Mils are really good for military applications as a designated marksman. So if a target chest width is 50cm and it fits between 1 mil mark, distance is 500m. You aim with a 500m mark on BDC post and shoot.

SVD scope even has a vertical scale for 1.7m tall target. So you don't have to teach math to various "freedom fighters".
 
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