Model 12 take down

mrgoat said:
Have been following this thread along. Personally I think trends in guns make the changes such as trends in clothing. When I started shooting trap in the late 60's I used a M-12, then went to a SX M-1 when they came out in 74, even had an SX skeet version. I went to a Win 101 OU in the late 70's, then finally a Classic Doubles when they were being sold off by Jaquaes in Ohio. Also had a Ruger Red Label in there along the line. All the fellas and gals I shot with over the years all started out with usually a Remington 1100 then graduated to a OU when they decided to get serious, or as funds allowed. It just seemed to be the progression of the sport and shooters. For me I just found an OU to be far less complicated. Far less moving parts enhanced reliability and cleaning, as well as some obvious safety features like when an OU is broke open it is easy to observe the chambers.
The younger generations appear to be enthralled by space age plastic composite stocks with various colour enhancements. A M-12 with a cutts will still break just as many targets in the right hands as it ever did except those hands have all passed on and the gun has gone out of style.
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So true. Pretty much seen the same thing model 12's were the gun of choice in the 60's when I started. Remember when the sx1 came out the old man ordered in 6 of them three trap and three skeet for him and his boys
Still have three of that bunch and they will die with me
Then the 4 barrel sets which I never kept and finished with a k32
Now when I get a chance I use the original old wingmasters we used in the 60's which is a hell of a lot of fun
Still see a lot of 1100 on the fields and even a few super x1 but no model 12's
Kind of miss that old cutts bark :)
Cheers
 
I can only speak to the model 12 as someone who was born decades after it was discontinued.
When it comes to buying and selling, a standard 12 gauge is very very tough to sell at any price beyond a gift. The old full choke pumps just aren't wanted by the masses anymore who can buy a 870nexpress for $400 or so and have a far more versatile gun. We can argue that one is better finished than the other, but neither are collectors items and are meant to hunt.
It's to the point now that you really don't see many at gun shows anymore, I suspect because sellers realize the market is so small now and there is a real lack of interest. Now something fancy or in a small gauge will sell quickly (as with any of the models) but these are not nearly as common.
 
3macs1 said:
?? New one on me but been a lot of years since I been really around them. Featherweights are still take down from what I recall other than it is not a model 12 normal take down. The big nut on the end of the mag tube is loosened, then the barrel can be turned a 1/4 turn to be removed.

Please share an example of this one you mention. Maybe Struff55 knows of it since he is the bomb on these model 12's
Cheers
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you sir are absolutely correct, my mistake. I have only seen two that I know of and the next one I see I will take a good look at.
 
3macs1 said:
IMO Marvel alright until you break a firing pin and a round slam fires with no finger on the trigger. Yee haww, after you clean your drawers and thank God you didnot kill someone all is good
This kind of changed my opinion on them many years ago. Wonder how many guys got shot as a result of this marvel
Yes sir easy to change the pin if you can get the retractor screw out and know it is broken since most times it still works for a while
Wonder how many guys left that can even work on them today. Know epps had a good smith on them years ago but not aware of anyone else
I will take the canoe paddle that most can fix in the dark and not fire on their own
The winchester marvel for me was the super x1
Cheers
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Yes so true, as I said those with mechanical aptitude will love M12's. Never saw or heard of one slam firing because of a busted pin... but I have taken a few down that were functioning flawlessly, probably for decades, WITH broken firing pins. I take my M12's down for a good cleaning often...just for something to do. Youtube will be your best friend if the M12 is strange to you as well....
 
M12shooter said:
Yes so true, as I said those with mechanical aptitude will love M12's. Never saw or heard of one slam firing because of a busted pin... but I have taken a few down that were functioning flawlessly, probably for decades, WITH broken firing pins. I take my M12's down for a good cleaning often...just for something to do. Youtube will be your best friend if the M12 is strange to you as well....
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If you have never heard or seen one of them firing from a broken pin you have not been around them long enough or shot in the days when the trap and skeet fields were full of them. It was a known issue back then and you chambered every round as if it would happen just to be safe
Old man ran a small shop in the 60's/70's and I recall at least three coming in and I seen one personally on a skeet field one day
Not sure why you think the m12 is strange to me like I said with the old man a smith I have had my hands on more than the average bear over the years just not for probally the last 25 years so forget a lot but not everything about them
Remember well adjusting and changing sleeves for sure and other things like pins causing miss fires, remember the huge smile a few years ago when I gave a guy a box of parts from the old man's shop when he was at a loss finding anything to fix his in canada

Not all with mechanical aptitude love them which is my background. In fact maybe that is why I don't
Kept three because two were my grandfathers and I knew the 28ga skeet was worth bucks other than that I would have none
to each their own
Cheers

Not my words but you can see how it takes place

I am sure most on this forum are aware that a broken firing pin can still function. While the M12 has the firing pin lock, it isn't perfect.

The pin below came out of a M12 I am renovating. Test firing before tear down revealed no problems. As you can see, the pin is broken and is now essentially a "two piece firing pin". You can also see the peening where the two pieces impacted each other many, many shells.

It also easy to see how the tip could wedge in the breech face, leading to a slam fire.



___The Model 12 s are notorious for breaking the firing pin. Being tapered it is still trapped in the bolt but does not retract when the action is worked. Sometimes it continues to protrude and hangs up the shell being lifted to load. Hence it is possible that the uncontrolled broken part of the pin could also cause a slamfire
 
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3macs, thank you for the pics and commentary. Yes I have not been around enough M12's to see them slam fore due to the aforementioned...however I have one that had such a worn trigger group that it had discharged as the action was being closed a few times, This was a 1912 manufactured in 1919 with a million miles on it. Use it as a parts gun.

I do own a locker full of M12,s various configurations in 3 gauges. Further I have shot M12's since I was 14 years old as did my father. I have a passion for shooting these vintage gun and still do today for most of my waterfowl shooting, pigeons,, crows and upland species. Shoot a trap model every week at 16 yards and handicap...use O&U for sporting clays, 5 stand and skeet.

Well known for firing pin breakage mainly because of dry firing. One can see so called experts on the internet video dry firing their M12's without care. I shall research this fourths as I am a curious type of person!

Lastly it was not my intention to lay claim to your lack of knowledge regarding 12's. Comment was generic as if a person owns one and is not familiar...with takedown and maintenance...Youtube is a good source of info.
 
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I love a m12 as much as the next guy, probably more, as I own 3 in 12 and 1 in 20.

However, the 31, debatably, due to cost, put the M12 out of business. Also, I find the mechanisms in my 31 , again debatably, superior.

C

struff55 said:
Yes more Struff sarcasm referring to EE I also was curious on how many would mention the model 25 as it is a model 25 not a model 12 besides not being a takedown there are many other internal diefirances . Long live the model 12 the best pump gun ever designed and built and yes better than the model 31 Remington
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The Model 31 was discontinued long before the Model 12 was. The 870 is what ultimately made Winchester shelf the Model 12.

But back to the OPs question...there is the Model 12 Featherweight. It's considered a takedown I suppose but not in the typical Model 1912 design.
 
I sold my last model 12 a few months ago. A Y series trap version. I love model 12's and have owned several but for an all around gun I prefer an o/u. My last model 12 primarily sat in the closet being removed only twice, once firing two boxes on the trap range and an extra 3 shots fired at crows here at home during the three years I owned it. Hardly worth hanging onto just to look at.
 
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