Model 1917 - Info Needed

VancouverSkiBum

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Hi all. Recently made a purchase, and would like to know what all the markings mean, what barrel i may have, and hopefully some history of MY particular rifle. Also what it may be worth in its current condition. (not looking to sell). Im going to have this for a while and just want to know as much as I can about it!

Its a 1917 at heart, but its had a bunch of stuff done to it, while still retaining most original markings. Its been bedded with a nice stock, timmny trigger, re-worked safety, iron sights removed and a leupold 3-9 mounted, crown touched up, etc.

Heres a bunch of pictures. Thanks!

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I would not be surprised should you obtain wonderful accuracy with this rifle: Churchill of London knew their stuff.

I have a very similar rifle "made by" BSA and still sporting the original WW1 barrel and it is amazing. That particular rifle was a gift from my long-time shooting partner, shortly before he passed away and it is definitely the best-looking rifle I have. First time I shot it, it went 8 for 10 on the 300-yard 6-inch plates, rapid fire, using the 1960 Weaver steel-tube K-4 scope that came with it.

After War Two, England was in a terrible fix financially but they had heaps of guns. Many were surplused to the Trade, which modified stacks of them into sporters and sold them here in North America for hard Canadian and US dollars with which to back the pound Sterling as the British economy clawed its way back from bankruptcy to prosperity.

Your rifle has London Proof House markings (arm with scimitar), calibre designation, cartridge case length and operating pressure in Long Tons per square inch of pressure. A capital "R" on a part indicates that it was made by Remington at Ilion, New York, an "E" means that it was made by Remington at their Eddystone, Pennsylvania plant, and a "W" would indicate Winchester manufacture. No matter because they all interchanged and, by the time Churchill was finished, they would have been PERFECT. As with British law at that time, Churchill then would have marked this rifle with their OWN serial number.

My "BSA" rifle still has the original First World war barrel attached. You might be able to ascertain your Barrel Date by looking at the TOP of the Barrel, about 2 inches behind the Muzzle. There once was (and still could be) a US Ordnance "Flaming Bomb" with the date on installation of your barrel. In this case 10-18 will indicate October of 1918, 8-17 will indicate August of 1917 and so forth.

Your rifle looks to have 4-groove Mauser-style rifling, right-hand twist. Original military barrels had 5-groove Enfield rifling, Left-hand. This means that your barrel has been changed-out for a barrel from Churchill's own production. They were VERY good.

When these rifles were sold here in the late 1950s and early 1960s, they sold for $65 to $100 for the rifle, PLUS the scope..... and scopes were expensive back then. That does not sound like a lot, but I was working in a restaurant for 50 cents an hour and was happy to get into a bakery at 70 cents an hour, even if it meant starting at 5AM and walking to work in 35 below. The Dollar was MUCH bigger..... and you got a lot less of the things. This was an EXPENSIVE rifle and worth every penny. The reason they sold was that they were priced a little less than a Winchester Model 70 at the same time.

Somebody has worked on your rifle since it left Churchill's shop. That is what the clear (epoxy?) damping rest in the forestock is all about. Don't remove it; many of these rifles shot their best with a damping-point either right there or a little forward of that point.

VERY nice example of the British gunmaking Trade in the late 1950s/early 1960s..... and also of "what happened" to so many of those P-14s and P-17s to make original specimens so scarce today.

Personally, I don't think there is a production-class rifle made today to compare with these....... at least under about 4 grand a copy.

Love it and look after it: it's a Keeper for sure.
 
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You know smellie there was another very good reason those rifles sold well and people were proud to have them. Remington had thousands of receivers left over after WWI as well as all of the tooling to build them. They decided to innovate and recycle, although I honestly believe the sporters they built on the Enfield actions were purpose built for their project, the Model 30S Remington.

One of my long departed mentors told me about buying the Enfield surplus receivers and bolts during the dirty thirties for $3/dozen. He had to do all of the machining on them to make them presentable, similar to the Churchill Gunmaker's specimens available. Of course, he had to discount them to the commercial offerings because people of the time, just like now bought what they could get for the least money.

I have a lovely Model 30S with some extremely out of the box scope mounting. I've never seen another like it. It has been rebarreled to 25-06, with a 1-14 twist rate.

I to have one very similar to the OP's and it still wears the period Weaver 2.5X scope it was purchased with and the WWII style replacement leather sling.
The scope is mounted on the side in a Weaver base. The barrel is not cut back and it still shoots as well as I can hold it with selected hand loads. It shoots anything off the shelf into less than three inches consistently and some that suit it under an inch.

Mine isn't a Churchill but more likely one that was purchased as a surplus rifle or barreled receiver and made into what it is today.

The nicest thing about these old girls is that they often shoot as well or better than many of the new CNC machined rifles of today and, because of their weight, recoil doesn't kick the hell out of your shoulder.

Nice rifle OP, it will serve you well and you will be hard pressed to do better. With some judicious stoning to the sear, the triggers on those can be safely brought down to 3 pounds and I've seen some even lower. I love the two stage military triggers but many of these reworks have had the extra hump removed.

By the way, the twist rate will be 1 in 10in. Mine really likes 200 grain bullets. It's the 200s that I get the best groups with.
 
Had it out on the range on the weekend. The scope came attached to the rifle and was still nicely sighted in at 200 yards, Producing a group under 3 inches with factory 165 core lockt, didnt have a proper rest or anything. Ive got my lee loader and empty cartridges now, just waiting on powder and bullets and il get this thing going! It has a load already worked up for it, 57g IMR 4350 & 165 gr Hornady Interlock flat base bullets.

But for now, its all ready for bear! :D

One thing though, it was stiff on the last upward motion of the bolt, with a fired round in the chamber. had to be quite forceful with the bolt to get the round out. Is this normal with these actions?
 
Bolt stiffness is typical in these rifles with very HOT loads, which is what you are shooting.

According to my Third Edition Hornady book, the absolute TOP load is 57.4 with that bullet.

I think if the rifle were mine, I likely would back off about 2 grains on the charge, which will still give you 2850 or so ft/sec with a 165.

WW2 specs for the M2 Ball cartridge was 2800 with a 152. The rifles were built for the M-1906 load, which was 2700 with a 150.

I don't think that small reduction will hurt the accuracy, either, once you are in the ballpark, so to speak. CONSISTENCY in your ammunition at that point seems to be more critical than any particular "pet load".


If it was the FACTORY rounds that gave you this stiffness, you should be aware that factories generally load them to the nuts. A slightly tight chamber, a quick lot of powder, even a hot day, can put them over-pressure for a particular rifle. I use factory ammo as a source of brass..... and that's all I use it for. Everything else is handloads.

Be safe!

Shoots as good as it looks.... and it looks pretty. Keeper for sure.
 
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Sometimes I need to whack the bolt up to get it to open. No problems like that with snap caps and empty chamber is smooth as butter. I understand it can be tight with hot loads, but this seems different?

Is it okay to be rough with the bolt opening it?
 
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As long as you aren't getting excessive pressure indicators with your brass this should be OK. You could try reloads at the starting powder weight recommendation and see how that works. Bolt action rifles were intended to be operated "briskly", but you shouldn't have to pound the bolt handle to get it to open. When that happens it is normally a sign of excessive pressure and powder charge weights should be backed off. When you say 54/55 gr powder, what is the powder and bullet weight you are using? How does the bolt close when chambering a round? If you are reloading are the cases trimmed below max OAL and is the bullet seated to be off the lands?
 
I also noticed the 4 groove RH twist barrel. As Smellie observed this indicates that the original barrel was probably changed out to the excellent Churchill barrel.

You definitely have a keeper in that M17. It should shoot very well.

Regards, Dave.
 
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