Model 70 safety issue

[koesdibyo]

I got a Winchester Model 70, post 64' in a 300 Win Mag.

Got it in on a trade, and it shoots nicely, and I love the gun... but on taking it to the range I did notice the safety wasnt enganging. On these models, I guess theres 3 settings the safety can be on; fire, intermediate, and full back.
And of course, in order to take the bolt apart, the safety needs to be in the intermediate position. Before I learned about this, I removed the bolt, and began to try to take the bolt apart but the sleeve lock got caught into a "groove" position. I was able to remedy it and get it back into position by pushing down on the cocking piece and rotating to realignment.

But that doesnt solve my problem on the safety. Any ideas on how to get the bolt disassembled so I can take a closer look at why the safety is not engaging? I dont want to force the safety and end up breaking it, but I have applied some gun oil, and trying to work it with SOME force into position. There is play, but it just wont go.

 

[chuck nelson]

Don't force it. Send it to someone who has done this before and have them fix it. Jan Kolenbrander, Bill Leeper, and Mitch Kendall come to mind.

 

[koesdibyo]

This is an image I found online of what was happening when I tried to unscrew the breech bolt sleeve. The remedy was pushing up on the cocking piece and realigning. I thought to myself... hey, wonder if while pressing up on the cocking piece, try to move the safety.

Sure enough, safety moves into place when the cocking piece had some pressure applied to it.
I now have a couple pictures of what my bolt looks like with the safety in the intermediate position. there is a bit of a gap as seen in the picture between the angled portion of the cocking piece and the bolt body. I am thinking this may be where my problem lies; as the pressure I needed to apply to move the cocking piece was pretty decent, and the leverage i am getting from the safety doesnt come anywhere near to what I am applying using other methods.




Once put back into the rifle, and the action fired, I am back to square one with the safety not engaging

 

[tiriaq]

The safety won't engage when the action is "fired". Will it engage when the action is cocked?
If it won't, an adjustment is needed, but this is best done by someone familiar with what is needed.

 

[koesdibyo]

In both cases, safety will not engage.

After getting it into the intermediate position with the "modified" method, once the bolt is back in the rifle it will move freely between intermediate and safety. But once pushed into the "fire" position, it clicks, and will not go back into the other safety positions again. The action is not yet fired, as a pull of the trigger causes another click.
Closer look at my cocking piece, the end looks like it has been broken off at some point.

I was hoping it would be a simplistic fix that I was missing, but I dont want to fudge with safety either. So it appears I shall be taking it to Ellwood Epps for further inspection.

But if someone with a M70 (post 64) would be so kind as to take a picture of their bolt (the cocking piece specifically) in the intermediate safety position to see if my gap is within norm it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[guntech]

Altering the trigger sear to 'improve' the trigger can affect the safety... as the alteration allows the cocking piece to move forward slightly and then the safety lever becomes hard to engage. This may be the cause of your problem.

All of this is best left to someone experienced in how the trigger, sear, cocking piece safety cam and safety lever all interlink and function.

 

[mrgoat]

If I am reading all the facts correctly the safety was "not" working when you had it at the range which was "before" you took the bolt apart. So the little mishap with taking the bolt apart and getting it back together may be irrelevant to the safety not working.

I would agree with "guntech" someone with a sound understanding of how all the components work together is needed. So taking it to Epps perhaps is your best bet at this point. Or farther up the road to see Rob Wise.

I have owned and operated M-70's since the early seventies and have on two occasion's mistakenly taken the bolt apart when the safety was not set at mid point. both times it took a bit of wrestling to get them back into position but everything worked flawlessly afterwards. So I think Guntech is onto something that someone has been playing with the trigger set up before you got the gun .

 

[koesdibyo]

Correct. I took it to the range before testing all the functionalities of it. Upon getting to the range, I loaded, cocked it, and attempted to put it on safe with no luck. I fired a few shots to see the accuracy, and upon getting home began looking into the reasons for the safety not working.

 

[rgv]

I see on the ee you're looking for a cocking piece, suspecting yours has been ground.

I have four post 64 model 70s and every one shows that the cocking piece had been ground through the bluing where it contacts the sear. They are made long and then ground back to match the firing pin to safety lever contact.

Guntech diagnosed this correctly. A poor trigger job is allowing the cocking piece to sit further forward than the safety lever and firing pin relationship allow for. It is also possible that's parts were mixed with another rifle.

Either way it is an easy fix for someone who knows where to remove material at the firing pin scallop where the safety lever cams the firing pin and cocking piece assembly back off the sear. Then you remove the same amount from the cocking piece where you see it has been ground.

If you buy a replacement, you will still need the whole set up to be timed as described. Even if your existing parts have been bubba'd, they can be retimed.

 

[koesdibyo]

I see on the ee you're looking for a cocking piece, suspecting yours has been ground.

I have four post 64 model 70s and every one shows that the cocking piece had been ground through the bluing where it contacts the sear. They are made long and then ground back to match the firing pin to safety lever contact.

Guntech diagnosed this correctly. A poor trigger job is allowing the cocking piece to sit further forward than the safety lever and firing pin relationship allow for. It is also possible that's parts were mixed with another rifle.

Either way it is an easy fix for someone who knows where to remove material at the firing pin scallop where the safety lever cams the firing pin and cocking piece assembly back off the sear. Then you remove the same amount from the cocking piece where you see it has been ground.

If you buy a replacement, you will still need the whole set up to be timed as described. Even if your existing parts have been bubba'd, they can be retimed.

Should the bolt not be able to move freely between the fire, intermediate, and safety while the firing pin is cocked? I took just the bolt into Ellwood Epps and was told the bolt had been butchered and they would require 6-8 weeks to fix it due to ordering parts. This was without even seeing the rest of the rifle.

Id be extremely happy if the problem only lied in the trigger job being done poorly. Any suggestions on whom to take it to in my area for getting this problem closer looked at with expert eyes as I am a little wary of Epps if you guys were able to diagnose this sight unseen, and they gave different information from visually seeing the bolt in person