model1911
- Thread starter jakebrake
- Start date
model 1911
thats some good shooting.The last cast frame gun i had was sti trogan with hard crome frame,the area behind the trigger guard had a very rough finish on one side from a very poor casting job,that kind or turned me off from cast frame guns.From a forged frame gun i think the frame is fully machined.I should have sent the gun back.
thats some good shooting.The last cast frame gun i had was sti trogan with hard crome frame,the area behind the trigger guard had a very rough finish on one side from a very poor casting job,that kind or turned me off from cast frame guns.From a forged frame gun i think the frame is fully machined.I should have sent the gun back.
Forget this one I think he bought a Smith and the plunger spring fell off(not staked right)he freaked out sent it back and got a Glock!
Things happen and he still likes his (block)Glock!
I'd rather have a 1911 without a plunger spring(no slide lock or safety) than a Glock!
Bo
)
Things happen and he still likes his (block)Glock!
I'd rather have a 1911 without a plunger spring(no slide lock or safety) than a Glock!
Bo
)
Dan Wesson looks nice but as you point out, it has a cast frame. Also, galling issues have been reported on the Dan Wesson forum (which indicates low quality stainless steel).
SW1911s are quite nice overall. My brother has one and likes it a lot. However, one downside of the S&W design is the external extracotr, which occasionally throws ammo in the shooter's face and, unlike its internal counterpart, cannot be adjusted to eliminate the issue.
Jakebrake while it would definately suck to have a bad casting such as you described
,i would also say that theres also such a thing as bad forgings as well out there,yes even this can happen!Now i know where talking Smith@|Wesson vs. Dan |Wesson here so i am going slightly off topic but the top 1911 builders in the bussiness will have absolutely no problem building on a quality cast frame (Providing theres no defects like you described)Another thing i hear that i find quite interesting is although quality cast frames are perfectly acceptable you definately want to stay away from CAST SLIDES,as theres more pressure on the upper part of the gun the slide.I also find it intersting that Caspian, a top 1911 parts supplier with an enviable track record makes frames cast and slides forged.There old website a long time ago basically explained that they used process of casting that they bought from Ruger called called ''Pine Tree Casting''running out of space for an explanation but long story short even though it's a casting it actually gets forged in the process of casting,(yes machines pound it like a forging in the casting stage while the steel is hot)Nighthawk,Wilson,Les baeur all build on Cast frames from Caspian,at least if its a lightrail frame.I think wilson now uses there 'own' lightrail frame presently.
,i would also say that theres also such a thing as bad forgings as well out there,yes even this can happen!Now i know where talking Smith@|Wesson vs. Dan |Wesson here so i am going slightly off topic but the top 1911 builders in the bussiness will have absolutely no problem building on a quality cast frame (Providing theres no defects like you described)Another thing i hear that i find quite interesting is although quality cast frames are perfectly acceptable you definately want to stay away from CAST SLIDES,as theres more pressure on the upper part of the gun the slide.I also find it intersting that Caspian, a top 1911 parts supplier with an enviable track record makes frames cast and slides forged.There old website a long time ago basically explained that they used process of casting that they bought from Ruger called called ''Pine Tree Casting''running out of space for an explanation but long story short even though it's a casting it actually gets forged in the process of casting,(yes machines pound it like a forging in the casting stage while the steel is hot)Nighthawk,Wilson,Les baeur all build on Cast frames from Caspian,at least if its a lightrail frame.I think wilson now uses there 'own' lightrail frame presently.I would see galling far easier happening from 'tolerence's or frame slide rubbing than low quality steel,actually i've never heard of that as being a cause for galling.There are far too many misconceptions on the cast vs. forged argument,its really more about how good steel,fitting,and the actual forging or casting is done.If Caspian supplied Dan Wesson with frames as a supply vendor and i knew it was built on a Caspian frame i would lose no sleep at all worrying if its cast or not.I have heard of lots of top names going to cast components Ed Brown's ''Hardcore slidestop '' for example that part alone in the1911 takes practically the most punishment besides the barrell, and he warranty's that part for life.That say's alot.
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I think you are confusing a few things here. First of all, Pine Tree is the name of the Ruger casting facility, not a casting process (Ruger guns are investment cast). Second, a part cannot be cast and forged at the same time. A forging is a casting that has been hammered or pressed. So it's either one or the other.
Also, Les Baer and Wilson do not use Caspian's cast frames. Les Baer manufactures their own forged frames. Wilson's frames are also forged, though I don't know if they are made in-house. I'm not 100% sure about Nighthawk, but I highly doubt that they use castings either.
As for galling, tight tolerances are not the problem. Early stainless steel semi-autos were notorious for galling issues because gunmakers did not immediately get their alloy properties right. Most of those guns were "rack grade" 1911s and S&Ws, not tightly build competition guns. Nowadays, galling is virtually unheard of, which makes me suspect that in Dan Wesson’s case, it’s a metallurgy problem.
no im not confused about to much capp235, Les baeur, Wilson do infact manufacture there own frames (Non-lightrail),and yes they are forged.But i can tell you for FACT that these manufactures all sourced caspian for there lightrailframes.I know for a fact wilson has started machining there own forged frames( lightrail frames that is ) I did fail to mention it is investment casting like you said,(For the Caspian and ruger)and and the factory is also called the pine tree factory like you said but i also recollect they they called it ''The ruger pine tree investment casting PROCESS'' and as far as Nighthawk goes they do in fact use caspian frames for the vickers model non- lightrail/lightrail model or what is now the Enforcer.Talon's G.R.P.'s or whatever else you order from Nighthawk if it;s lightrail its investment cast Caspian there other non lightrail frames are infact forged as you claim and as far as what i said about it essentually getting forged in the process of casting is infact unique to the process.Because what you said about it can only be forged or cast is actually correct but that's how the ruger pine tree investment casting is actually different from traditional casting .Hence the name Ruger pine tree casting''NO NOT ALL CASTINGS ARE EQUAL
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One other thing while quality of steel may affect galling,i never said it didn't .what i did say is frame to slide relationship would infact play a greater role in galling e.g.-fit,or tolerence,than quality of steel.Also stainless steel has always been known for galling easier than steel (gOTTA LOVE THAT OIL!!!!)
