Modern Binocs vs my Older Zeiss?

MauserMike

MauserMike

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
58   0   0
Location
SW Ontario
I have an '80's vintage pair of Zeiss Jena (East German) 7x50W Binoctem porro prism, multicoated binoculars. They are absolutely fantastic and get a lot of use on my boat.

I can manage them in the field but they are quite large and heavy. How do the more modern compact binoculars such as the 8x40 Leupold roof prisms compare? I know roof prism are more popular these days but in the past they were really 2nd banana compared to a top quality set of porro prisms.

I can't really justify spending more than a few hundred on a another pair of binocs.
 
i don't think you'll approach NEAR THE QUALITY of your "older" binocs for 200 bucks- like you, i have a pair of vintage but mine are 8x40, swiss, ( who still are the only people that REALLY know how to grind glass) and chances are , they'll be made somewhere in the orient- i think you'll have to go to somewhere upwards of there to get the same /better and get a lighter weight
 
Totally in agreement here. Take your binocular to a store and compare head-to-head with any $200 modern unit. I think that you'll have a lot more respect for the quality of your vintage ones.

And optical quality aside, remember that your 20-plus year old glasses are still in good functional condition mechanically, despite considerable use. Nothing you get for $200 today is going to be built like that.

John
 
Poking around ebay, I'm wondering if I should just add some matching Zeiss vintage 8x30's, or perhaps one of the ex-DDR military binocs. They seem to garner pretty good reviews too.

The East German Zeiss firm certainly knew how to make excellent optics. I have some killer Carl Zeiss Jena glass for film cameras as well, I would just say that build quality of the mounts were just a little below West German standards, which is to say nearly bulletproof.
 
Modern products from pentax and Nikon are superb for about 1/4 the cost of the Euro products. Lense coatings have improved tremendously so low light viewing is better then your old binos.

The Chassis are also much lighter yet retain strength and weather proofness.

If you were looking for a new Zeiss, I would suggest you look at the upper end Nikons. They have beaten the Euro products for years based on birder reviewers. My experiences with some Nikon products have been excellent.

If you don't mind a larger porro prism binos, have a look through the new Nikon Action EX Extreme binos (reg Action line sucks). They are dirt cheap. I have a 12X50 pair I use for general LR glassing. At a 1000m shoot, I compared it side by side to an older Zeiss owned by a sheep hunter. We both agreed the Nikons were easier to view through/more comfortable and resolution was near identical. These retail for around $200.

Leupold does not make any decent inexpensive products. Most of their Binos aren't all that good when compared to the likes of Pentax and Nikon. Mid grade Bushnells would be better then the entry Leupolds.

betterviewdesired.com and other birding sites will give you alot of side by side comparisons.

Jerry
 
For about $300 (if you buy right) you can get a Nikon Monarch, Pentax DCF WP or Bushnell Legend. They are all optically good, waterproof and reasonable weight and size. Or you can spend seven times as much and get German binox that are 5-10% better.
 
Celestron perhaps

Celestron make a fairly nice roof prism in that $200.00 range product. They are called Outland LX and come in an 8 or 10 x42, made in China, but have a No fault lifetime replacement warranty. Good close focus, quite a bit less than Nikon or Pentax products, worth a look. FS
 
The problem I have with Celestron is that they don't manufacture optics, they just spec out and buy from other makers. The products they supply range from cheap crap to very good but I can't determine in advance how good they really are or how well they will stand up.
 
Nikon "E" and Superior E porroprism glasses will exceed your Binoctem...Swarovski Habicht or the older "SL" series will as well. The newer Zeiss (especially with the Abbe Koenig prisms) will be similar/better ... or maybe lots better depending on how clean and secure your lens elements and prisms are..... Fujinon makes excellent porroprisms that will exceed the Binoctem etc
Pretty much any of the current $1000+ roofprism designs with phase coating and multicoating will be as good and some MUCH better..

the big problem is unless you find a killer deal on the previous mentioned glasses "used"....it is going to be pretty tough (probably impossible) to equal what you have (again assuming they" are clean and in good order) for $200... in that range new (200 bucks) the only glasses I have seen personally that are pretty good are the Leupold Yosemite but they max out at 8x,30


btw .. some sites say that the Jenoptem economy line of Zeiss Jena are as good as the Deltrintem/Binoctem etc line....don't believe it for a second! I have owned several Jenoptem AND Deltrintem .....the Jenoptem are an inferior product period ... although still pretty good for the money


Incidentally the Nobilem series from Zeiss Jena (and later Docter Optics) are in a class by themselves
 
Last edited:
I agree wholeheartedly with the consensus that it'll take more than a few hundred dollars to get a match for the quality of your old Zeiss set, but in the last couple of decades technology has allowed a much much bigger improvement in the usable quality of cheaper products than in top end stuff corresponding to your Zeiss. The gap is closing.

Only you can decide whether the quality of $200-300 dollar binoculars will be satisfactory when combined with the convenience of carrying equipment smaller and lighter than your excellent old 7x50s.
 
So what?

762shooter said:
The problem I have with Celestron is that they don't manufacture optics, they just spec out and buy from other makers. The products they supply range from cheap crap to very good but I can't determine in advance how good they really are or how well they will stand up.
Click to expand...

As if it makes any difference,Bushnell doesn't manufacture any of their product,and they seem to sell a pile of product. None of the Leupold binos are made by them, its highly unlikely that any $200.00 retail binos are made by any of the big name Japanese companies.
I'd like to know which $200.00 binos you can determine in advance, how good they really are and how well they will stand up. FS
 
ive got a pair of russian military surplus 8x30 binos.

they are absolutely brilliant. as good as any $2000 binos ive looked through including new Swaros..

the reason why they are so good is russian military ones are made using factory equipment and optics the russians stole form the Zeiss factory in WWII. so they are effectivly Zeiss binos with a few improvements over the years and then badged as military spec. nice and compact, strong, light and perfect optics...

they can be bought for about $100usd if you are lucky, up to $500 if you arnt! UUSR company in the US stocks them i believe..
USSR
PO Box 722
Burdett, New York
14818
phone 607-546-7700 between 1800 and 2200 est.
 
the russians may have"stolen" the equipment from zeiss, and produced SIMILAR products, but they couldn't steal the EXPERTISE- i've had both and there is a definate difference in that the russian will feel more "clunky" and coarse- it all has to do with the final polishing and pride in workmanship- and we're not talking scopes/binoculars but geodesic theodolites- and i still say the swiss/germans are the only expert glass grinders
 
.... Check around for used East German Zeiss 8x30 ( In the 80's I bought a pair through Lever Arms ) and for the money they are very good. Also keep your eyes open for "Kurt Muller" ... 'bought a pair of 8x30 at the local Goodwill Store for a really cheap price ! .... I've also got a pair of Canadian WW2 Navy "Ross" 7x50, and a pair of Bausch and Lomb 7x50 from probably the late 50s, and really, for normal type viewing/use there are some really good deals out there among the older glasses. That being said, the better quality modern binoculars, and spotting scopes, are incredibly clear and sharp, if you can afford them ! .... David K. .....
 
Have you ever heard about the Jenoptem Japanese fakes?
Click to expand...
Yes.

There's a big difference between these and the real Zeiss DDR built ones.
Click to expand...
could be .. or not. The early Canon rangefinders camera's were a Japanese copy of the Leica and the Nikon were copies of the Zeiss Contax. ... I am familiar with all of them and the Nikon Rfdr were quite bit better than the Contax ... some of the Canon thread mount lenses were easily the equal of the Leitz products.... in the '50's Kowa made a 2 1/4 twin lense reflex that was optically quite a bit better than the Rollei equivalent with a Zeiss Tessar lens

Don't want to get carried away here... for the money ..the better lines of Zeiss Jena were very good. BUT they also made economy "Zellers" bino's as well. Remember - they could not sell them in the US and they had to make a price point that an average guy in the former USSR and other Eastern European "pre Glasnost" could afford.....don't forget the Lada :)
 
Last edited:
Celestron

Fassteel said:
As if it makes any difference,Bushnell doesn't manufacture any of their product,and they seem to sell a pile of product. None of the Leupold binos are made by them, its highly unlikely that any $200.00 retail binos are made by any of the big name Japanese companies.
I'd like to know which $200.00 binos you can determine in advance, how good they really are and how well they will stand up. FS
Click to expand...

What you say is true but there are enough people using Bushnell and Leupold products that you can get good feedback on specific models from people who are actually using them. On the other hand, I know few people other than myself who own a pair of Celestrons so you are pretty well on your own to try and evaluate a particular model.
 
Japanese fake German binox

MauserMike said:
Have you ever heard about the Jenoptem Japanese fakes? There's a big difference between these and the real Zeiss DDR built ones.
Click to expand...

In the 60's the Japanese made a lot of binox with German sounding names; Kurt Mueller, Karl Wetzlar, etc.
 
Hehe, now your talking AP. Don't even get me started on my rangefinder collection! The earlier Nikon RFs and their lenses were built even heavier than Zeiss. BTW, I'd say the Nikon RF is about 50/50 Leica Contax based on the Leica cloth shutter and rangefinder mechanism construction.

506013205_509eb21a7b.jpg


The Japanese unauthorized Jenoptem copies in question use much cheaper mounts than the genuine article, even (ack Zeiss afficionados) PLASTIC parts.

Anyhow, I find it hard to believe that a fully multicoated binoc like the Binoctem suffers much in brightness compared to "more modern coatings". If each air/glass interface has in excess of 99% transmission, there isn't what I'd call a whole lot of room for improvement.

I guess I'm back where I started after this long rambling. Considering how much use they'd get, I think I'm going to get some smaller porroprism binocs. Will keep my eyes peeled.





AP said:
Yes.

could be .. or not. The early Canon rangefinders camera's were a Japanese copy of the Leica and the Nikon were copies of the Zeiss Contax. ... I am familiar with all of them and the Nikon Rfdr were quite bit better than the Contax ... some of the Canon thread mount lenses were easily the equal of the Leitz products.... in the '50's Kowa made a 2 1/4 twin lense reflex that was optically quite a bit better than the Rollei equivalent with a Zeiss Tessar lens

Don't want to get carried away here... for the money ..the better lines of Zeiss Jena were very good. BUT they also made economy "Zellers" bino's as well. Remember - they could not sell them in the US and they had to make a price point that an average guy in the former USSR and other Eastern European "pre Glasnost" could afford.....don't forget the Lada :)
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom