Modern SXS choices

I found a vintage JP Sauer and Sohn sidelock, which is absolutely beautiful. A12 gauge and light-in-weight for carring. I use the short 1.75" shotgun shells for ruffed grouse. With 2.75" shells, I use 1-1/8 .oz for other upland. I paid $2,300 for it, however there are many available in you're price-range.
 

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Were I just looking for a lead shotshell gun, my choices would have been far wider at the time I was looking for them. First one I picked up was a CZ Ringnreck in 20ga in 2010 or so, still have that, works fine, probably 5 cases of 3" steel 1oz loads thru it now, along with 3-4 cases of lead rounds, predominantly 3" steel, some lead, good bunch of 2-3/4" handloads too. Also have a FAIR 20ga hammergun, no beefs on that, but was 3 times the price, it's shot snows and honkers and specks too.
The one thing with the EU new & newer shotguns these days are that they have to be proofed for high speed steel rounds, incl the Turkish ones. For lead only fixed, choke guns, there are a pile of good used ones around, if you step up to the 2500-3500 range, you can get a some pretty stuff too, just have to be patient and keep looking. IE a 3k Mauser with 5K min worth of engraving on it, some with the nice engraving and some serious wood as well, all from good mfgrs.
 
You could do a lot worse that choosing a used Winchester 23 or Browning BSS, They are really durable boxlocks and they occasionally come up for sale here on CGN. They would be generally in your price range.
 
Mount Sweetness said:
See if you can wait it out and put together $2500 or so.
More options and a keeper to be proud of.
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Yeah... And once you saved it, you'll end up thinking... Might just has we'll make it to $3k... And then you'll realize that there's tax and shipping... ;)

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On a more serious note, greatnorthgunco has what seems like a nice AYA for not much $

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track said:
I found a vintage JP Sauer and Sohn sidelock, which is absolutely beautiful. A12 gauge and light-in-weight for carring. I use the short 1.75" shotgun shells for ruffed grouse. With 2.75" shells, I use 1-1/8 .oz for other upland. I paid $2,300 for it, however there are many available in you're price-range.
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I have one of those. Great guns. I love mine. A couple thoughts.

They were made prior to 1910. Many had Damascus barrels but some had fluid steel. None of the barrels were designed for or proofed for modern nitro powders and current modern ammo pressure levels of around 11,000 to 11,500 psi. Which is the pressure of those 1 3/4” shells. And every other shell offered for sale in Canada unless it is specifically labeled low pressure. Pressure generated has nothing to do with shell length or load. And after 110 plus years if you haven’t checked the internal wood to metal fit, shooting modern 2 3/4” 1 1/8 oz shells will hasten the demise of the stock. The recoil will see to that.

I typically use 2 1/2” shells loaded to either 7/8 oz or 1 oz with a pressure peak of around 7-8K psi. If it hasn’t been lengthened the original chamber length is 2 1/2. A 2 1/2 chamber will easily accommodate a 2 3/4” shell. What happens when you fire it is the end of the shell opens into the forcing cones causing a brief spike in pressure, usually around 700 - 800 psi. The spike is higher for smaller gauges. Given the gun was designed and proofed for around 8000 psi, using a 2 3/4” modern load spikes the pressure past 12,000 psi. I like my hands and eyes too much to do that.

Those actions came in two sizes. The easiest way to tell which is which is the larger in 12 ga tends to be close to 7 pounds and the smaller action in 12 ga tends to be between 6 1/4 and 6 1/2 pounds. They used the smaller action when they produced it in 16 gauge.
 
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canvasback said:
I have one of those. Great guns. I love mine. A couple thoughts.

They were made prior to 1910. Many had Damascus barrels but some had fluid steel. None of the barrels were designed for or proofed for modern nitro powders and current modern ammo pressure levels of around 11,000 to 11,500 psi. Which is the pressure of those 1 3/4” shells. And every other shell offered for sale in Canada unless it is specifically labeled low pressure. Pressure generated has nothing to do with shell length or load. And after 110 plus years if you haven’t checked the internal wood to metal fit, shooting modern 2 3/4” 1 1/8 oz shells will hasten the demise of the stock. The recoil will see to that.

I typically use 2 1/2” shells loaded to either 7/8 oz or 1 oz with a pressure peak of around 7-8K psi. If it hasn’t been lengthened the original chamber length is 2 1/2. A 2 1/2 chamber will easily accommodate a 2 3/4” shell. What happens when you fire it is the end of the shell opens into the forcing cones causing a brief spike in pressure, usually around 700 - 800 psi. The spike is higher for smaller gauges. Given the gun was designed and proofed for around 8000 psi, using a 2 3/4” modern load spikes the pressure past 12,000 psi. I like my hands and eyes too much to do that.

Those actions came in two sizes. The easiest way to tell which is which is the larger in 12 ga tends to be close to 7 pounds and the smaller action in 12 ga tends to be between 6 1/4 and 6 1/2 pounds. They used the smaller action when they produced it in 16 gauge.
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The chamber in mine has been reamed to accept 2.75" shotgun shells. Being that I'm long-in-the-tooth, the max lead ounces I shoot is 1 1/8. Although it has 29.5" barrels, it is very light and has a-bit-of-a kick.:oops:
 
track said:
The chamber in mine has been reamed to accept 2.75" shotgun shells. Being that I'm long-in-the-tooth, the max lead ounces I shoot is 1 1/8. Although it has 29.5" barrels, it is very light and has a-bit-of-a kick.:oops:
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Mine has 29.5" barrel's as well. Also very light. Just over 6 1/4 lbs. The action is unbelievably svelte. Doesn't look like a 12 ga. If you ever decide to part with it, drop me a note.
 
Lots of info in a short time. CGN gives me hope for forums, and canada's firearms culture. THanks everyone. I Was looking at a cheap forest sxs on intersurplus, but with the dented barrel i'll likely grab a Baikal if I can find a neutral one. play around on that, see what I do and do not love, then spend more money either on a huglu or save up for a higher tier shotgun like Mount sweetness suggests.

Thanks everyone!

Carpenter
 
Depends what is modern to you. Less than 20 years old? Or comes with removable chokes? Or can take modern ammunition?
To me a post war rifle is modern. For shotguns it’s a bit more complicated. Expectations have changed with time.
 
TheCarpenter said:
Hey folks, looking around for a modern SXS manufacturer. I see Cheap stoegers and want to spend more money than that. I would like a "nice" SXS. something light, quick handling, good pointing etc. Pretty is nice and all, i would like to be proud of it, but I know It's going to get banged up in the brush.

I'm not looking for a super fancy 5-20K firearm, I think that's a little rediculous for my lifestyle. I would expect to pay 1000 to maybe 1500$ for a lifetime keeper gun, but maybe that's not realistic?

20 gauge is my favorite gauge, but I enjoy 12, 16, 20, and soon to be .410

It's mostly going to be used for upland bird. Pheasant, maybe ruffed grouse. might get used on a rabbit or something here and there. I was hoping for 16 gauge as I don't have much in 16, and heard it "hit's like a 12, kicks like a 20".

You experienced claybusters and bird blasters have any opinions or advice to share? or anyone know of good modern manufacturers of SXS? If i HAVE to..i'll look at O/U but really love SXS.

Thanks in advance.

Carpenter
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I like Churchill. Good gun
 
Old Ranger said:
Years ago (20+) I hunted a lot with 3 friends. Mostly grouse and woodcock over dogs. Each of us had 20 ga Ithaca/SKB's SxS. All of us loved them. Mine had 28 in barrels and chocked M&F. The other 3 were 25 in ImpC/Mod.. Mod 100's if I remember correctly. They occasionally still come up for sale. A couple years ago Switzers Auction sold one. No idea of value now. Paid $500 for mine in mid '90's.
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I've had both the 25" and 28" SKB M100s. The 28" is a better handling length. I bought mine with the chokes opened up to IC/M. It's perfect.

They are not $500 anymore but still a very good field gun at twice that price. The only thing I don't like about it is the lack of two triggers.
 
SuperCub said:
I've had both the 25" and 28" SKB M100s. The 28" is a better handling length. I bought mine with the chokes opened up to IC/M. It's perfect.

They are not $500 anymore but still a very good field gun at twice that price. The only thing I don't like about it is the lack of two triggers.
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My sentiments exactly.
I've had 2 M100's and an M200, the 200 had 25 inch barrels and the 100's were both 28 inch and one was 12 gauge while the other was 20 gauge. It wasn't many years ago when you could get really nice ones for under a grand. Those days are long gone but still, I'd definitely recommend one if you can get your mind around the single trigger.
 
rhino62 said:
You can still get a very nice 16 gauge Huglu sxs from Prophet River. however once these are gone you wll be SOL, since Prophet River is no longer importing Huglu shotguns for some unkown reason. I have had a number of them over the years, since CZ shotguns are actually made by Huglu and currently have a Huglu 200AC 12 gauge which is the nicest shotgun I have ever owned.
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I just bought a 202B Mini in .410 from Prophet River, I didn't realize they were no longer importing them. Glad I bought mine when I did, I'm really enjoying it so far.
 
I'm not really a shotgun guy, can't get excited about them the way I do with rifles. But I have a lovely old Brno ZP49 SxS 12ga double trigger that has been in my safe for about 30 years. A true sidelock gun that even today can be had for far less than $1000. Had it reamed out from M/F to IC/M and a rubber pad installed. It is lightweight, handles beautifully, and looks the way a SxS should look IMHO. I think these guns are one of the best bargains in the gun world.

Steel shot? Beats me, but I doubt it; I will never want to use steel in it so I don't care. I have butt-ugly pumps and semis if I need to shoot that stuff. Fixed chokes? Yep, for me it's a pure upland gun and they work. If I had to find something to complain about, it would be the fact that I once had a pair of them and stupidly sold one.

I love this gun, but again, I'm not a dyed-in-the-wool shotgun guy. I recall hefting the Brno in one hand and my Husquarna SxS in the other, and being blown away by the difference in weight and feel. The Husquarna got chopped down and equipped with iron sights, to become my Poor Man's Big Bore Double rifle. The Brno will live forever as my Upland Gun.

If any shotgun experts want to enumerate all the things that are bad about the Brno, to warn the OP about getting one, I look forward to reading what they have to say. For me, it won't change my mind. :)
 
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