Modle 70 Winchesters
- Thread starter Kyler
- Start date
- Location
- Burke Mountain & Pavilion Lake, B.C.
I have a couple both pre and post 67 or whatever the year of change was. Both are great rifles.
KTK
KTK
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
There are a ton of Remington lovers on this board. Why is a good question.
The Winchester model 70, in all it's flavours is an excellent rifle. The pre-64 versions are the true classics and the purist will have nothing less, however, the late models are also excellent rifles. The years to avoid, are the years from 1964, through to the mid seventies, when quality control was pretty bad.
The Winchester model 70, in all it's flavours is an excellent rifle. The pre-64 versions are the true classics and the purist will have nothing less, however, the late models are also excellent rifles. The years to avoid, are the years from 1964, through to the mid seventies, when quality control was pretty bad.
- Location
- Burke Mountain & Pavilion Lake, B.C.
Thanks for the correction on the year John. If I remember correctly with a pre 64 the trigger is considered superior and the bolt/extraction system was machined, hence why the pre 64's are considered better. Can you confirm this for Kyler and correct me if needed.
I'm not too sure what year my later Model 70 is , but it too has never given me any trouble and it is a 7mm mag.
KTK
westcoaster
CGN Regular
- Location
- Central BC
"I am looking to buy a modle 70 Winchester, but first i would like to know if they are any good. what are some of the likes and dislikes i should know about. Or any other sugestions of a rifles i should buy in a .270 WIN"
I have a post 64 and a Classic, both are dependable, accurate rifles. I was looking at a new model 70 featherweight in 3006 at WSS in Kamloops recently. If I didn't already have two 3006's it might have come home with me. I very much liked the trigger, the fit, and finish. The bolt was a slick as can be.
I am a Winchester guy so of course I recommend them, but bear in mind that there are a number of very good new rifles being made today. CZ, Ruger, and Kimber come to mind in the CRF line. It is well worth going to a well stocked store and handling one of each.
I have a post 64 and a Classic, both are dependable, accurate rifles. I was looking at a new model 70 featherweight in 3006 at WSS in Kamloops recently. If I didn't already have two 3006's it might have come home with me. I very much liked the trigger, the fit, and finish. The bolt was a slick as can be.
I am a Winchester guy so of course I recommend them, but bear in mind that there are a number of very good new rifles being made today. CZ, Ruger, and Kimber come to mind in the CRF line. It is well worth going to a well stocked store and handling one of each.
- Location
- Fleeing the Regime
I have a Pre-'64 in .270 that my grandfather owned and was passed on to me by my Dad who never used it and kept in storage (without telling me about it) until I was 22. It has, without comparison, the nicest trigger of any rifle I've ever gotten my hands on.
gunrunner8
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kamloops, B.C.
Mod 70 Win
In my opinion anybody attempting to buy bolt action rifle should first read book "BOLT ACTION RIFLE" by Frank de Haas. I hapen to agree with him, that Win mod 70 has good and bad features. Before You accuse me of being a traitor and mombeater, I would like to say that according to him Win mod 70 has very poor gas handling qualities in case of catastrophic case failure. Also in addition, threads in front of receiver are cut by broaching lug raceways weaknening it unnessesary. Mauser 98, Savage 110 and Rem 700 are way better in this department. Me, being handloader would newer buy mod 70. Safety to me means more than aesthetics, "0.5" at 100yards" or other, latest fads. My $ 0.02. Regards, Roman.
In my opinion anybody attempting to buy bolt action rifle should first read book "BOLT ACTION RIFLE" by Frank de Haas. I hapen to agree with him, that Win mod 70 has good and bad features. Before You accuse me of being a traitor and mombeater, I would like to say that according to him Win mod 70 has very poor gas handling qualities in case of catastrophic case failure. Also in addition, threads in front of receiver are cut by broaching lug raceways weaknening it unnessesary. Mauser 98, Savage 110 and Rem 700 are way better in this department. Me, being handloader would newer buy mod 70. Safety to me means more than aesthetics, "0.5" at 100yards" or other, latest fads. My $ 0.02. Regards, Roman.
I don't think anyone considered the pre 64 trigger to be better. Infact both the pre and post model 70s had very ggod triggers.
The difference between the pre and post actions was that the the pre-64 used a controlled round feed (CRF) action with claw extractor, very nearly the same as a mauser. The post 64 action is not CRF, it is a push feed like a remington 700 and uses a similar extractor.
New model 70
Sheep I saw one of these yesterday, in a 270 featherweight. It was a small shop in Tofield, I think the guy wanted $999.00 for it, The stock looks identical to the last production model made. FS
Sheep I saw one of these yesterday, in a 270 featherweight. It was a small shop in Tofield, I think the guy wanted $999.00 for it, The stock looks identical to the last production model made. FS
They are fine rifles but for me (I own a model 70 Super Grade 338), the safety on the bolt and lack of a detachable magazine makes it not my favorite hunting rifle. When it comes to hunting, I would choose a Remington first or a Tikka.
The Ruger also does not have a DM but the safety is easy to operate for me.
CRF is also another factor that has to be considered for some people. In my case again, I prefer a push feed for the type of hunting that I do (I never load the first round from the magazine).
A lot of these considerations are very personal so assess them for yourself and handle as many different makes as you can before making a decision.
My 2 cents
Duke1
The Ruger also does not have a DM but the safety is easy to operate for me.
CRF is also another factor that has to be considered for some people. In my case again, I prefer a push feed for the type of hunting that I do (I never load the first round from the magazine).
A lot of these considerations are very personal so assess them for yourself and handle as many different makes as you can before making a decision.
My 2 cents
Duke1
- Location
- Burke Mountain & Pavilion Lake, B.C.
Thanks for the clarification jethunter, I must of been wrong about the trigger. For some reason I thought that the pre 64's had a screw with which you could adjust trigger pressure where as the post 64's did not. I must have this confused with another rifle.
One thing I do not like about the Model 70 is the fact that in order to cycle the bolt and unload your rifle you have to take it off safe. I realize that proper muzzle control will keep things safe, but the closer to fool proof something is made the better in my opinion.
KTK
A M70 safety has three positions - safe with bolt locked; safe with bolt unlocked; fire. The M70 safety system is popular enough that similar mechanisms can be retrofitted to Remingtons and Mausers. M70 safeties are not the most rugged though. Engaging parts are small, and it is not unusual for a M70 to wear to the point that it cannot be engaged. Easy enough fix, though.
As far as pre and post goes, the roughest M70s are the '64s through '68s.
There are post '64s with CRF, if that matters.
The pre '64 and post '64 CRF do have inferior gas handling qualities, if that matters. It only makes a difference in the event of a catastrophic case failure. Remember that the 70 descended from the 54 and the M1903. The'03 abandonned the superior breeching of the M98 Mauser. One of a number of superior Mauser features deleted in the US copy.
No mechanical difference between a pre and post trigger mechanism. Same adjustment system.
As far as pre and post goes, the roughest M70s are the '64s through '68s.
There are post '64s with CRF, if that matters.
The pre '64 and post '64 CRF do have inferior gas handling qualities, if that matters. It only makes a difference in the event of a catastrophic case failure. Remember that the 70 descended from the 54 and the M1903. The'03 abandonned the superior breeching of the M98 Mauser. One of a number of superior Mauser features deleted in the US copy.
No mechanical difference between a pre and post trigger mechanism. Same adjustment system.
- Location
- Burke Mountain & Pavilion Lake, B.C.
Deciding what rifle to buy is very much a Ford vs. Chevrolet argument, except without as much real difference between the reliability of the various makers.
Much emphasis has been placed on the controlled round feed of the pre '64 Win Model 70/ Classic Model 70, and to be quite frank, I figure that it all amounts to being a great shovel full of sh!t, mostly for the benefit of selling ad space in magazines.
When was the last time you or anyone you know, had to hold their rifle upside down, and slowly feed a round into the chamber? A CRF rifle will do it, but....so what!
Another of the supposed advantages of a CRF rifle, is that a guy that panics, has a harder time of jamming it up by double stroking the bolt.
Well. Maybe. Maybe said individual should not have put themselves where this is of grave concern. It has not stopped the push feed Remingtons from selling very well.
I own a pre '64 M70 Featherweight. I like it a lot. I can drop a round into the chamber and close the bolt on it just fine. I like the three position safety on the bolt, it works for me, and the lack of a detachable mag does not interfere with my hunting in any way.
Looking it over, with an honest eye, it is not that hard to see why there were so many gunsmiths able to make a living. Production build quality was, in a word, poor. Good for the 1950's, but compared to modern production tolerances, poor. A great deal of labor went into each rifle, hand fitting parts, and polishing, in order to make them, which was the lead reason that the design was changed in '64. By the time the "Classic" was reintroduced, production quality without as much handwork was more the norm, so cashing in on the legend was a great business decision. The build quality went from poor, to worse, after 1964, and the older production sure looked good in that light!
Buy any new built rifle these days, from a Stevens, on up, and you can expect performance, out of the box, that many gunsmiths in the golden days would have been really happy to achieve. Todays machining technology is better, materials are better, and barrels are WAY better, on production guns, than they ever were when the "legend" of the pre '64 M70 was shoveled out to the masses.
From the way thing were written up in the magazines, if you got a factory rifle that shot under an inch at a hundred yards, in the pre' 64 era, it was like you won the lottery. These days, it's almost expected from a production gun, and in some, an inch at 100, is cause to be replaced on warranty, or damn near.
The Win Model 70 CRF action is a damn good shooting iron, after saying all that. It should be. Mr Mauser was a damn fine designer!
Buy the rifle you like. Having a rifle you like, that shoots well enough, is better than having a rifle you don't like, that shoots a marginally smaller group on paper. Getting a lemon production rifle these days, is about as common (or less so) as getting a really good shooting rifle out of the box seems to have been in the "old days".
Remington 710's excluded, of course! slap: to Remington for quality "control"
)
Anyways. Just my little rant about the legend of the CRF M70 Winchester. Compared to what is available,, and what is routinely expected of a modern production rifle now, the legend does not hold up to the hype. Not in my eyes, anyway. Buy one because you want one. Buy one because it's the one you like, after comparing them side by side with the others. Don't buy one because of the legend, unless you can deal with having the legend potentially die a hard death.
Cheers
Trev
Much emphasis has been placed on the controlled round feed of the pre '64 Win Model 70/ Classic Model 70, and to be quite frank, I figure that it all amounts to being a great shovel full of sh!t, mostly for the benefit of selling ad space in magazines.
When was the last time you or anyone you know, had to hold their rifle upside down, and slowly feed a round into the chamber? A CRF rifle will do it, but....so what!
Another of the supposed advantages of a CRF rifle, is that a guy that panics, has a harder time of jamming it up by double stroking the bolt.
Well. Maybe. Maybe said individual should not have put themselves where this is of grave concern. It has not stopped the push feed Remingtons from selling very well.
I own a pre '64 M70 Featherweight. I like it a lot. I can drop a round into the chamber and close the bolt on it just fine. I like the three position safety on the bolt, it works for me, and the lack of a detachable mag does not interfere with my hunting in any way.
Looking it over, with an honest eye, it is not that hard to see why there were so many gunsmiths able to make a living. Production build quality was, in a word, poor. Good for the 1950's, but compared to modern production tolerances, poor. A great deal of labor went into each rifle, hand fitting parts, and polishing, in order to make them, which was the lead reason that the design was changed in '64. By the time the "Classic" was reintroduced, production quality without as much handwork was more the norm, so cashing in on the legend was a great business decision. The build quality went from poor, to worse, after 1964, and the older production sure looked good in that light!
Buy any new built rifle these days, from a Stevens, on up, and you can expect performance, out of the box, that many gunsmiths in the golden days would have been really happy to achieve. Todays machining technology is better, materials are better, and barrels are WAY better, on production guns, than they ever were when the "legend" of the pre '64 M70 was shoveled out to the masses.
From the way thing were written up in the magazines, if you got a factory rifle that shot under an inch at a hundred yards, in the pre' 64 era, it was like you won the lottery. These days, it's almost expected from a production gun, and in some, an inch at 100, is cause to be replaced on warranty, or damn near.
The Win Model 70 CRF action is a damn good shooting iron, after saying all that. It should be. Mr Mauser was a damn fine designer!
Buy the rifle you like. Having a rifle you like, that shoots well enough, is better than having a rifle you don't like, that shoots a marginally smaller group on paper. Getting a lemon production rifle these days, is about as common (or less so) as getting a really good shooting rifle out of the box seems to have been in the "old days".
Remington 710's excluded, of course!
slap: to Remington for quality "control")Anyways. Just my little rant about the legend of the CRF M70 Winchester. Compared to what is available,, and what is routinely expected of a modern production rifle now, the legend does not hold up to the hype. Not in my eyes, anyway. Buy one because you want one. Buy one because it's the one you like, after comparing them side by side with the others. Don't buy one because of the legend, unless you can deal with having the legend potentially die a hard death.
Cheers
Trev
- Location
- Burke Mountain & Pavilion Lake, B.C.
westcoaster
CGN Regular
- Location
- Central BC
I handload and do not hesitate to shoot handloads through my winchesters - of course I do not shoot outside of the recommended safe loads.
The gas porting is a flaw on the pre and post 64's and could cause discomfort or injury if one does not inspect cases before reloading or loads to unsafe pressures.
It is my understanding that the "new" FN Model 70 has evolved the gas porting to deal with this issue.
As far as CRF to non CRF, well this dogs been beat to death a few times...
If you shoot pushfeed and like it - good for you, if you shoot CRF and like it -good for you.
The gas porting is a flaw on the pre and post 64's and could cause discomfort or injury if one does not inspect cases before reloading or loads to unsafe pressures.
It is my understanding that the "new" FN Model 70 has evolved the gas porting to deal with this issue.
As far as CRF to non CRF, well this dogs been beat to death a few times...
If you shoot pushfeed and like it - good for you, if you shoot CRF and like it -good for you.
