Modle 70 Winchesters

While I am not the top authority on Model 70's, one thing to keep in mind in this discussion, is that there are actually quite a number of different action styles, all called "Model 70's". They mostly all had the three position safety mounted on the bolt, and the same design trigger, until the advent of the new FN70, with the new trigger design.

As far as gas handling characteristics of the "Model 70", I have never read Frank de Haas book, but assume he is referring to the "pre-64" action. In this action, escaping gases could come back through the left raceway, and directly into the shooters face. The despised redesign of the Model 70 to a push feed style in 1964, has a bolt face very similar to a Remington 700, except for a better extractor, IMHO. :) So I don't think this problem exists in the push feed style Model 70's.

The "Classic" CRF action introduced in 1990, while very similar to a "pre-64", is not identical and does incorporate some improvements over the "pre-64". One is a gas block, which resides on the left side of the bolt opposite the non-rotating extractor. This serves to block the left raceway, in the event of a case rupture, to help prevent hot gases from flowing back through the left raceway. Newer production Classics, starting in about sometime in 2002, also began incorporating a bolt shroud with a gas flange on the left side, which serves to deflect any gases which might escape past the gas block away from the shooters face. This flanged bolt shroud is seen on the CRPF action as well. The new FN70, a CRF action apparently identical to the Classic except for the trigger, also uses the gas block and flanged bolt shroud. Hope this helps to clarify some of these issues! :D
 
I might also add to the discussion about the Model 70 three-position safety. IMHO, the newer designs of the Model 70, which have addressed the old gas handling problems attributed to the old "pre-64", are absolutely some of the safest designs extant. One reason is the three-position safety. The Model 70 safety, as previously pointed out, has a fire position, a safe position allowing the bolt to open, and a safe position which locks the bolt down. The Model 70 safety also BLOCKS THE FIRING PIN, in BOTH of the safe positions, unlike the vast majority of safeties, which merely block either the trigger, or the sear, or sometimes both the trigger and sear.

The Ruger MKII and the Hawkeye, while some proclaim these as "the new Model 70", has a three-position safety of a completely different design. It is receiver mounted, and while it does block the firing pin when in the the rear safe position which also locks down the bolt, but it DOES NOT block the firing pin in the middle safe position, which allows the bolt to open.

The net-net of all this is that a Model 70 can be unloaded, with the rifle on safe, and the firing pin actually blocked at the same time. Can't get safer than that, unless you never load your rifle! :D
 
I own a pre '64 M70 Featherweight. I like it a lot. I can drop a round into the chamber and close the bolt on it just fine.
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I can do the same with my BRNO CRF Mauser actions but it's still bad for an unmodified Mauser style claw extractor. I'd do it in a pinch if I had to but for regular shooting, it's through the magazine with a CRF for me.

And I agree that reading de Hass is a good idea for newbies buying their first bolt action rifle.
 
Most precision rifle builds are done on Rem 700s and now Savage actions because they are a little easier to work on and true, and there are more accessories available. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with a M70. I have numerous versions, sporting and heavy barreled. Regarding the pre 64 and post 64 actions, I seriously doubt that 1% of rifle owners even understood what CRF meant when the change came about. Made for a lot of press by the gunwriters though. The average hunter DID notice the stamped checkering and shoddy finish though. As mentioned, the "new pre-64 actions" have addressed the gas handling issues, making 70s no less safe then other sporting rifle actions. And they are a pretty rifle. I like the 3 position safety, although I prefer a tang safety for hunting. They all work, you just have to be aware of how they work, and use them the way they are intended to be used. - dan
 
Model 70 Winchesters

There is lots of history of changes with the Model 70 Winchester.
The most often referred to is the change in '64 to a different action type, manufacturing method, cosmetics, and fit and finish.
There were some shortcomings addressed with the new model, the most signifigant was the gas handleing deflector on the bolt shroud and eventually in the race-way. Much was also lost.
Stock fit and finish and checkering were cheapened, investment castings, stamped out parts, greater tolerances for mass assembly line production, loss of fixed blade ejector, loss of Mauser claw extractor on and on. All of these points can be argued as to value, but in the end most are considered a detraction form the pre-1964 manufacture. All and all I've heard that there was 90+ machining steps in the pre-64, hand fitting, honing, you know, craftmanship. Winchester was losing money on the M70 so had to make changes. What you got was a cheapened model. Look no further than the bolt, which used to be one piece, forged including the bolt handle. Post 64, crimped on bolt handle to a knurled surface on the bolt. Result? Bolt handles that can lift without the bolt turning.(See current Handloader mag, Brian Pearce)
Ultimately, Winchester went back to a pre-64 action type, with great fanfare.
There must have been something to that? One thing that does give some hunters and big game guides some comfort is that massive Mauser claw ripping cartridges out of the chamber and that fixed blade ejector sending them clear. Think of the African guides that refuse anyone who show up with a clip type extractor, ie, the Weatherby owners that have found themselves with a broken extractor on their way to, or in the heat of, the African Savana.
The truth is that the beauty and function of the Model 70 is again improving, becoming more consisitant than in the past, going back to its proven roots, and living up to it's earned legend, that will not die, the Rifleman's Rifle.

Blowback
 
Mauser 98 had a great three position safety. First quarter turn eased the tension off the sear, wouldn't fire, but allowed for safe unloading. When altered for a scope, the one postition was usually lost.
 
The poor gas handling qualities of the pre-64 were only partially addressed in later models. Primarily by the use of bandaid solutions. The root causes (coned breech, gas vent hole in the bolt which vented directly into the left raceway) remained and still remain. The little gas block may not be all that effective but I still like it and retro-fit it to my pre-64's. Mostly, I just try to avoid loading them too hot!
The bolt handle is not "crimped on" but is silver soldered on to a knurled surface. If the silver solder joint is a good one, everything is fine. Unfortunately, this is not always the case.
I like Model 70's. They might not be the best action for a target rifle or a hunting rifle but they are a pretty good and classy choice for either one. Regards, Bill.
 
Unless you happen to have a blind magazine, I don't see the huge advantage of a three position safety. I mean do you guys not just dump your cartridges out the bottom first, then a simple, point down, slip off safety & pull shell out of chamber!

One thing I will give the Winny is the new Featherweights are some of the most handsome guns made :)
 
featherweights.......There is formula about min steel thicknes over chamber to have min safety standart. Dia of barrel over chamber must be " dia of chamber + 5/8 of same per side". In case of let say 308 win- .470+(5/8x.470)+(5/8x.470)=.470+.294+.294=1.058" I realise this is old formula by Dunlap I belive and modern steels are much stronger and Savage is getting oway with 1" dia over chamber, but look at the featherweights!! There is short flange on barrel in front of receiver and then sudden slope to 15/16 dia where there is only .242" of metal over chamber! and even less if it is magnum chambered. I would like to hear opinion of one or two profesional gunsmiths about this matter. My 2c worth. Roman.
 
Since I can remember, I've always been a fan of "the Rifleman's Rifle" and have several different Model 70's. To that end, I've always wished for a Model 70 Featherweight in an over .30 cal. but the lightweight barrels are too thin for this project. This year I decided I had to have one in .338-06 so RMR's (Corlane's) did the build utilizing a Pac-Nor barrel in a Sporting #1 contour. The Pac-Nor LW barrels are .675 after the shank tapering to .550 while the #1's are .765 tapering to .650. To get close to Winchester's barrel weight with the slightly larger tube and fit the original stock (albeit free floated) the shank was cut to the same short configuration as the original featherweight then fluted and finished at 23". The result is a handy, lightweight rifle chambered in a very authoritive cartridge.
 
The new model 70s have been in The Sportslodge here in Whitehorse for over a month. The two Featherweights are nicely finished and have, not exhibition grade, but exceptionally nice wood.

One of them, however, has the safety so far out of time that it literally take two hands to put in on "safe."
 
Pre 64 Model 70's

Very intersting & lots of input but anybody that says pre 64 model 70's don't shoot either has a lemon or has not been around many hey shoot excellant also nobody seems mention the fact until the K15/ German Voere Titan the pre 64 had the fastest lock time of ant production rifle. Anybody has one they don't like please sell or trade them to me.
 
Mod. 70s

bigbull said:
Excellent rifles.
bigbull
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All my serious hunting guns are Mod.70s. As for old Mod. 70 accuracy, I just took my 300 H&H out for the first time. All I had were 5 rounds of 30-40 yr old Dominion Factory 180s. 2 to get on the paper at 100 then 3 in under 3/4".
One group means nothing but it doesn't hurt either.
 
duke1 said:
They are fine rifles but for me (I own a model 70 Super Grade 338), the safety on the bolt and lack of a detachable magazine makes it not my favorite hunting rifle. When it comes to hunting, I would choose a Remington first or a Tikka.

The Ruger also does not have a DM but the safety is easy to operate for me.

CRF is also another factor that has to be considered for some people. In my case again, I prefer a push feed for the type of hunting that I do (I never load the first round from the magazine).

A lot of these considerations are very personal so assess them for yourself and handle as many different makes as you can before making a decision.

My 2 cents

Duke1
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Caught on to this a little late but my Win 70 has a detachable magazine. IIRC no one bought them so they stopped making them with DMs
 
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