Mondragon self-loading rifle. Ever seen one?

avroe

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I had never heard about this little guy before today, but ran into it while doing some research on another piece thats been sitting in my safe for far too long unidentified.

Anyone manage to acquire one? or even see one?


World guns says the following:

Caliber: 7x57 mm Mauser
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: 1105 mm
Barrel length: 577 mm
Weight: 4,18 kg empty
Magazine capacity: 8 rounds box; also 20 rounds box or 30 rounds drum (in German service)

"Mexican general Manuel Mondragon began his work on new military rifles before the turn of XX century; as early as in 1896 he received patents for his straight-pull bolt action rifle with rotary bolt locking. Later on, Mondragon evolved this design into a gas-operated, self-loading rifle. His early experimental self-loading rifles were built for special experimental cartridges of 5 - 6 mm caliber; but in around 1900 Mondragon developed an improved system chambered for standard Mexican military rifle ammunition, 7x57mm Mauser. Further modification of this weapon, patented in 1907, was officially adopted by Mexican army in 1908 as "Fusil Porfirio Diaz Systema Mondragon", and manufacturing orders were issued to Swiss-based SIG arms factory, because Mexico has no proper arms making facilities. Because of political disturbances in Mexico, only few Mondragon rifles were issued to Mexican army; most produced rifles were left in Switzerland, and later were bought out by Germans, who were desperate for rapid-firing arms since the start of the Great War (WW1). Some of these rifles were fitted with 30-round drum magazines and issued to airplane crews as Fliegerselbstladekarabiner Modell 1915 (before light machine guns were taken into air), and few more were issued to front-line troops (with standard 8-round or extended 20-round magazines). The service life of these rifles in German army was rather short, as Mondragon system was sensitive to dirt and fouling, which were so typical for trench warfare of WW1
Nevertheless, Mondragon rifle was a remarkable weapon, which was well ahead of its time. Many of its features (gas-operated action, rotary multi-lug bolt) can be found in later and more successful weapons such as US M1 Garand rifle, and many others.
Mondragon rifle is a gas-operated, semi-automatic weapon which can be quickly converted into manual repeater (and back) by the turn of the gas valve, located at the front of the gas block. The operating system consists of a long-stroke gas piston, which is located below the barrel, and is connected to the bolt through operating rod, which runs from the gas piston and to the bolt at the right side of the receiver. Return spring is located below the barrel and acts upon operating rod. The charging handle has a special lever at its front which, when pressed, decouples the bolt and operating rod, so bolt can be cycled manually without need to compress powerful return spring. The rotary bolt is somewhat unique in that it has two sets of radial locking lugs, at the front and at the rear of the bolt body, resulting in very positive and strong locking. Bolt is rotated to lock and unlock through two spiral cuts, made on its right side. These cuts are engaged by the projections on the massive operating slide, which also hosts the bolt handle. Rear of the receiver has a spring buffer which is used to decrease recoil stress on the receiver in semi-automatic fire.
Early experimental self-loading rifles of Mondragon design used en-block clips similar to that later used in M1 Garand rifles. Swiss-made production Mondragon rifles relied upon detachable box-type two-row magazines which held 8 rounds. These magazines could be reloaded either when detached or when installed on the gun, using stripper clips or single rounds, loading through the top of the open action. In German service, Mondragon rifles were fitted with extended-capacity 20-round box or 30-round drum magazines."


h ttp://world.guns.ru/rifle/autoloading-rifles/mex/mondragon-e.html i
 
I have seen two Mondragons in my life time and both out of my reach. I saw one in a museum collection in the US and several that went for auction at James D. Julia auctions. They sold from between $20,000 to $27,000 each.

ht tp://jamesdjulia.com/auctions/div_catalog_233_sh.asp
 
Specimen(s?) in the RMC collection in Kingston.
Saw a privately owned one in London ON over 40 years ago.
 
I've seen two:

#1 - Military Museum of Vytautas the Great, Kaunas, Lithuania. How the hell it got there is hard to say. Some Soviet-era wanker drilled a great nasty hole through the chamber, so that's one less that works.

#2 - The Buffalo Bill Museum, Cody, WY. No doubt in functional order. Not a surprise, as those folks seem to have one of everything, and more than one of most. An amazing place.

Never seen one "in the wild". Sad. they look kinda cool.
 
looks like one is up for sale on gunbroker right now.

h ttp://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=207239428#PIC

Bidding is just under $12k right now.

Says its 1 of 32 known, and the rest are thought to have been destroyed after WW1. Does this sound right to everyone? Why would they have been destroyed in that time period?

....wondering if this might be that once in a lifetime chance we each get at buying one of these, if indeed only 32 exist today..
 
Wonder if we will ever see some of the mexican Arisaka's , granted I think we have a better chance of seeing the fabled Russian Ross's or the straight pull Lee's from the United States.
 
A group of my fellow pundits and I had a private tour of the Springfield Armory storage room a number of years ago and were allowed to examie - but not touch - a Mondragon. A fascinating piece of machinery!
 
I got to examine two that were offered for sale in the USA, but never seen one for sale in Canada.
 
How many of these were made? Can anyone provide a quick history? Can't say I know anything about them.



Were these made in Canada and sold to Russia? Or Russian mfg?


Japan made some Arisaka's on contract for the mexican government but they got the first shipment and then didn't pay. Japan didn't make any more for them . Not sure of numbers.


At the start of the red revolution in Russia the allied countries sent material and troops to russia to help the whites. Archangel and siberia is were we went. We went Ross rifles, Studabakers and a few troops. The troops came back but the distrusted Ross rifles stayed. The reds captured some and made a match rifle out of some. Rossguy has been looking for them along with every other Ross fan but there hasn't been any sign of them other than as those match rifles. I think Smelie( or another member) phrasedit best as "Russia is a black hole for small arms , anything that goes in never makes it out".
 
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