Monolithic vs Lead Construction

woodlotowner

woodlotowner

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After reading a few interesting threads on here about choosing the best bullet for big game, I find myself comparing monolithic (solid copper) bullets to those of lead construction. It has been suggested that a 150 grain TSX/TTSX would be the ballistic equivalent of a 165 grain traditional lead construction bullet on large game (i.e. deer/moose), and that a 165 grain TSX/TTSX would be the equivalent of a 180 grain lead bullet. Again, I am speaking of terminal performance on large game.

I know from personal experience, having recovered a textbook example of the TSX from a deer, that they do perform well. I also realize that a monolithic bullet, being less dense than a lead bullet, is longer for the same bullet weight and that magazine dimensions must be kept in mind when substituting them for lead bullets.

Thoughts?
 
Ive seen and tried myself tsx and ttsx in 25 and 30 caliber and they all shed the pedals. Ive had to follow up 2 wounded bears shot with tsx bullets. One never found and the other the bullet went thru the base of the neck think collar bone area and ended up in the shoulder meat. Didnt touch bone and the 180gr 30 cal was nothing but a stub. The pedals all broke off under the hide on entrance.
Maybe they work in bigger cals more consistently but i wont use the tsx myself. If a factory 180gr 300wm tsx cant exit a bear from 90 yards when no bones incountered thats a fail in my mind
Having said that i am currently playing with the gmx line but a 110gr gmx in my 300wm. Ive worked up decent loads i just havent had time to try to recover a bullet in various media and will likely wait till summer and try gel and water and wet newsprint and pine or wasted roadkill

I much prefer a lead core bullet. At least with them im not questioning myself whether the bullet is going to fail as i shoot. I use a fairly wide selection of various leadcore bullets and never found any trouble except muzzleloading sst bullets. Weird as normal centerfire sst bullets seem to always perform as advertised.
Bullets like tipped trophy bonded bear claw i think are great combining a softer bonded lead front with a solid shank. I havent used them on game but all recovered bullets show they work as advertised. Even 5 yard shot with a 300wm into a hard sand backstop the bullet expanded and held together. Its what im loading for bear and moose in my 300wm
Some will argue with my ramblings but those are my experiences
 
every bullet can fail.

you need to choose the bullet considering the game you are hunting. for a bear including a grizzly i will go with a nosler partition.

few years i got bad experiences with barnes too and it was with barrenground caribou. they were penciling and not expanding at all, but seems they corrected that part. it was the barnes x.
but i do not think you need a tsx or variable barnes for a black bear.
 
You use the example of “a recovered bullet”as evidence of something. A single data point is not evidence. It’s a mistake to base decisions on no real evidence.
 
Dogleg said:
Monos are for when you want an animal to die somewhere else.
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This!
Every single animal I have shot with a mono has ran somewhere, not a single one ever dropped.(50 plus animals, from coyote to moose.)
6mm-375 cal used. I sure did want to like them, but my findings proved that I did not like the way that they killed things.
Never again.
 
John Barness wrote years ago that a Barnes bullet needs to weigh about 80% of what a Nosler Partition or Accubond does to penetrate the same amount on game. So a 30cal 180gr Nosler would be similar to 150gr 30 cal Barnes

I killed my first animal with a Barnes in 1996, used them a lot since. X FB, X BT, XLC, TSX, TTSX, LRX - they all kill. My experience has shown that they're quick killers, no difference than a lead core bullet for putting game down
 
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todbartell said:
John Barness wrote years ago that a Barnes bullet needs to weigh about 80% of what a Nosler Partition or Accubond does to penetrate the same amount on game. So a 30cal 180gr Nosler would be similar to 150gr 30 cal Barnes

I killed my first animal with a Barnes in 1996, used them a lot since. X FB, X BT, XLC, TSX, TTSX, LRX - they all kill. My experience has shown that they're quick killers, no difference than a lead core bullet for putting game down
Click to expand...

You should talk to him now. His current position is the fastest killing bullets are the Berger and all the monos are tied for slowest killing and longest runs. Everything in between is somewhere in between. ;) He based that on his notes on some Africa culling.

I did my own little 600 animal test that 168 grain TSXs featured heavily in. They should come with a vacuum guage. We call them leukemia bullets now.
 
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It has been very interesting to hear from people using mono bullets, the variances in on game performance. Some have used them exclusively on game with great success, while others have had some very bad experiences with them.
I have only taken a few animals (4) with them in various calibers so cannot say conclusively either way yet. Fortunately, my experiences have been positive to date.
What I can say from personal experience and from what others are saying, is that your rifle will either love 'em or hate 'em. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground with them.
Best for accuracy has been in a 6.5x55 and a 416 Taylor, and had good accuracy in 300 WSM and 358 Win as well. On game performance has only been in the 6.5x55 on 3 deer and moose with the 140 Barnes X Bullet. No DRT, all went 15 to 80 yards. Not that different to a cup and core bullets performance. The moose took a finishing shot (probably did not need it, but did not want it to make it into the creek), the deer were one shot harvests.

What I can say is that the Nosler AccuBond has become my favourite hunting bullet, since first introduced, in all of the calibers that I have tried them in to date (270 Win to 376 Steyr. the 6.5's and 25 cal are looking promising so far, but have not yet been used to harvest game). They are the easiest to work up good loads for, consistently the most accurate bullet in the rifles that I have tried them in (MOA and better), and have given consistent, great on-game performance (double expansion and 90-95% weight retention of recovered bullets on a variety of big game from antelope to bison, from 15 to 354 yards).
I have also had great success with the Nosler Partitions, Sierra Game Kings, Speer Hot Cors, Hornady Interlocks and Winchester Power Points.

At the end of the day, if the hunting bullet it shoots well in your rifle, use it in the field on game. If placed properly, it should harvest your animal just fine.
If it doesn't, try to determine if it was bullet failure or poor placement. Be honest about the bullet placement. Did you have someone else watching and witnessing your shot? What did they see? We have all made shots we thought were good, but our companionshave called otherwise, or video has captured and can verify. We all try to be perfect in our execution everytime, but are not perfect 100% of the time. Pulled shots, mistaken range estimation, animal moves, wind changes, etc. So many variables in the field!
But an isolated incident does not necessarily mean that the particular bullet make and model is going to be the problem. It could be an isolated issue. Manufacturers spend plenty of time and resources on R&D before bringing a product to market, and I think that we have some of the best products available out there today. Repeated failures will be the true test, but who wants to have that on game in the field? (I know I don't!)
 
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I would have no problem believing that Berger’s are some of the quickest if ot the quickest killers. They appear to literally explode inside animals. If they weren’t sending lead 360deg throughout the meat I’d probably try em. But I get my metal intake at work and don’t need extra poison in my life.
 
I've shot 2 whitetail bucks a coyote and 2 bull moose with ttsx in 30-06 and 338wm. With good shot placement the 2 bucks dropped on the spot or ran like 4 steps before kicking the bucket. I didn't have to track blood I saw them fall and their vitals were pulp. Both shot at 60-80 yards


The coyote wandered in at Less than 50 yards and I had my 338 in hand so that was a disaster. It looked like a grenade went off. Half his body was liquefied and scattered across the forest

The bull moose I had mixed results. The 1st bull was my first bull ever so to say my hands were shaking is an understatement. Shot placement was less than ideal. But we found him about 70-80 yards from where I hit him.
2nd bull was spooked by a truck and I took him on the run. 2 shots, 1st shot would have been enough got his lungs but the 2nd was a neck shot for insurance. He dropped where I hit him on the 2nd shot. Both shot within 100-125 yards

My buddy got a huge cow moose with 1 shot and she dropped in her tracks. The cow was almost facing him head on so the bullet drilled right through the entire animal and was found under the hide on her rump. He was shooting a 7mm with the tsx bullet (175+ yards) . He was very happy with the performance.

In my experience they do their job just fine if you hit the right spot.
 
Agreed. It’s nice to have a Barnes bullet in the pipe when you’re dealing with a less than ideal shot that isn’t going to get any better.
 
Many animals have gone for a run after being hit with every sort of bullet. I've had lots of DRT experiences with Barnes bullets. I like their "any shot angle you want" abilities. Most of the Barnes bullets aren't long range hunting bullets, but are good performers within standard hunting distances of 0-400 yards.

With most bullet choices, you have to know what you are dealing with, and how to use them. A Berger isn't going to be ideal on a moose frontal or shoulder shot at 50 yards, and a Barnes bullet won't be ideal on a deer broadside lung shot at 700 yards, but reverse the scenarios and you are in business. taking a long shot with a Barnes and concerned you won't get full expansion? Aim for bone. There are lots of different ways to ensure you have quick kills. Using ideal bullet weights for your cartridge is important too. A 165/180 gr cup and core bullet might be ideal in a 3006, but I would go with a 130/150 ttsx.
 
Switched to Barnes after seeing the X-rays of deer shot with lead constructed bullets.
Getting a "flower of lead" stuck to a tooth was a telling point in making the switch.
Now my butcher grinds my venison first thing in the morning so that avoids getting someone else's lead.
Poor performance by the hunter cannot be blamed on the bullet!
 
chuck nelson said:
If you can’t find game hit with TSX’s after you shoot them, you missed what you should have hit.
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Exactly! I have killed deer, moose, elk and pronghorn with the TSX/TTSX, out of the 300RUM and 7mmstw, and the kills are quick and clean. I have recovered very few monometal bullets, but the animals were easy to recover.
 
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