Moose draw open in Ontario today

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TedNugent

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Be my first draw, there are possibly 3 or 4 of us interested or capable of applying this year. Are we better to apply as a group, or as individuals?
Going to get my Dad to apply in order to increase the odds, anyone have success getting a cow or bull tag with a small group?
Any thoughts appreciated.

Aaron
 
It would be better to apply as a group, but the odds will be determined by what WMU you pick. If this is your first time applying, you'll be in pool 2; at least some of the group will have to be in pool 1 to have any chance at success.
 
Take a look at the 2017 regulations. In the moose section they give statistics for all the WMU's from the 2016 draw (last year).

Each WMU shows a guaranteed group size - so if you apply with the minimum required group size and you are all pool 1 hunters, then you will pull a tag.

If your group size is smaller (and only pool 1 hunters really count in your group size) then any of the listed group sizes your odds of pulling a tag go down significantly.

Four hunters is a pretty small group in Ontario.

Now if your group is smaller than the guaranteed size for the area you want to hunt it doesn't necessarily mean you are out of luck. If the group size is 12 you probably have little/no chance, but say it was 6 or 7. Then you could apply as a group for that area. When one member of a group gets a tag, all the other members are removed from the draw so in effect, for every tag pulled a number of hunters come out of the total that applied for that area.

To illustrate what I'm saying I'll pick WMU 17 from the 2017 regs.

The guaranteed group size to pull a Bull tag is 7 pool 1 hunters entered as a group.

For 2017 there are 69 bull tags available in the draw.

Last year (2016) 295 total hunters applied for a bull tag, as their first choice, in WMU 17.

So assuming the applications will at least be (similar) this year you can do some "voodoo math" (a guess) to see if maybe a group of 4 could pull a bull tag in that area.

If (IF) everyone applied with the minimum group size in WMU 17 you would have almost 43 "groups" of 7 hunters (to account for the 295 applications). Now it's unlikely all that applied belonged to groups of 7 party hunters but IF THEY DID that would eat up 43 of the 69 available tags - so "possibly" 26 tags left after the guaranteed groups got their tags.

Then they would work their way through the rest of the process (large groups, groups, individuals). Now I don't know exactly how they work through that process, but groups of 5 or 6 would get a shot at one of the unassigned tags. When someone in the group hits, the entire group is removed - and so on and so on until no tags are left.

If you are all pool 2 hunters (weren't in the draw AND unsuccessful last year) then simply plan on paying your 55'ish bucks each and hoping for next year. If you are planning on hunting an area such as WMU's 28 thru 50 inclusive, with a group size of 4, you might be waiting "many years" before you ever pull a tag.

I hunt in a group of "2" and we get an adult tag every second year. But we hunt in WMU 25 - basically no road access at all (have to take a train in) which means the hunter numbers are uber-low. If you can drive there in a day you generally need a very large group of hunters. The tougher it is to get to, the better chance you have of pulling a tag.
 
TedNugent said:
Be my first draw, there are possibly 3 or 4 of us interested or capable of applying this year. Are we better to apply as a group, or as individuals?
Going to get my Dad to apply in order to increase the odds, anyone have success getting a cow or bull tag with a small group?
Any thoughts appreciated.

Aaron
Click to expand...

This year because it's your first draw,it won't really matter what you apply as. You'll all be Pool 2 hunters,so,your chances of drawing a tag are slim to none. You need to jump in and get wet,though,so,next year,you can apply as a pool 1 group. Depending on which WMU you choose will dictate your chance of success in the draw. The more tags it takes for a guaranteed group size,the lower the chances of drawing a tag if you don't meet that size. Generally,the farther south you apply,the chance of a successful draw drops dramatically. The southern WMU's are a 6 day hunt,only,which further restricts your chances. You and your crew need to decide where you want to hunt and when. I suggest going as far north as is practicable to guarantee an adult tag,although,you may still hunt calves in the two-week period that they're open. To increase your chances of a successful big game hunt,take Black Bear tags,too Study the Moose tag allocation tables in the guide. Good luck!
 
Loved the good ole days when you could walk into a hardware store and buy a moose license and go out and shoot ANY moose and it was good for a black bear too.
That changed in 1983 here in Ontario.
It's been 10 years since I had an adult moose tag and now unsuccessful draw applicants aren't allowed to hunt calves until the later part of the season.
Last year we couldn't even get a tag from an outfitter camp in our area. The MNR didn't issue them any.
With all the Indians, black bears and wolves killing moose there aren't any left for the draw.
 
Trimmer 905 said:
This year because it's your first draw,it won't really matter what you apply as. You'll all be Pool 2 hunters,so,your chances of drawing a tag are slim to none. You need to jump in and get wet,though,so,next year,you can apply as a pool 1 group. Depending on which WMU you choose will dictate your chance of success in the draw. The more tags it takes for a guaranteed group size,the lower the chances of drawing a tag if you don't meet that size. Generally,the farther south you apply,the chance of a successful draw drops dramatically. The southern WMU's are a 6 day hunt,only,which further restricts your chances. You and your crew need to decide where you want to hunt and when. I suggest going as far north as is practicable to guarantee an adult tag,although,you may still hunt calves in the two-week period that they're open. To increase your chances of a successful big game hunt,take Black Bear tags,too Study the Moose tag allocation tables in the guide. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Yeah, unless you are planning on going hunting in a fairly remote area, make your $55 donation to Wynne this year and get ready for next year. The WMU my camp is in is far too accessible so the draw success rate is really low given the available quota and there is no guaranteed party size. If you are in pool 2 in my area, you are just paying a membership fee to become pool 1 so that you have a chance in future years.
 
win94luver said:
Loved the good ole days when you could walk into a hardware store and buy a moose license and go out and shoot ANY moose and it was good for a black bear too.
That changed in 1983 here in Ontario.
It's been 10 years since I had an adult moose tag and now unsuccessful draw applicants aren't allowed to hunt calves until the later part of the season.
Last year we couldn't even get a tag from an outfitter camp in our area. The MNR didn't issue them any.
With all the Indians, black bears and wolves killing moose there aren't any left for the draw.
Click to expand...

Even successful applicants have to wait for calves. It is two weeks later across the board.
 
not to de-rail this too bad but i have a question... last year i bought a moose license well after the draw deadline, i.e. October, in order to go for a last minute calf hunt. even though i paid last year, am i still in pool 2 this year as i didn't apply for a specific unit. and for example lets say i apply for WMU 1 one year and then WMU 2 the next, does that put me back into pool 2 for WMU2 ?
 
Yes, you are still in pool 2. The only way to advance to pool 1 is to "apply" into the draw and be unsuccessful (or not have a tag transferred to you under the limited rules that lets someone else transfer their tag to you).

That's why most of us that hunt moose "burn a year" after getting a tag. So buy a tag and apply to a draw that you know you won't be successful in.

I would like to see more than two pools myself - why not 5 or 6? Some go "years" without pulling a tag and only 2 pools doesn't reflect how long a particular hunter has been applying and not pulling a tag.

And to your second part of the question, NO, applying in different WMU's in following years does not affect your pool status. In fact, you don't have to select a WMU in any year if you don't want to - there is an option for none.

You can use this option for a couple of reasons. So when you start off and know you are pool 2 you may select no wmu because it doesn't matter anyhow (in almost all of them), you aren't getting a tag anyhow. OR say you are in pool 1 this year but can't hunt for some reason. As long as you buy a licence you can apply for no wmu in the draw and keep your pool 1 status. As long as you keep paying to play you can keep your status. If you don't then you will be a pool 2 hunter once again the next time you buy a licence.
 
Last five years I got a cow tag, 21A, didn't matter if I was pool 1 or 2. This year I went to 18A. Got my calf tag yesterday. However, my two buddies, who were in pool 1, applied to 18A as a group and got a bull tag, so we are back in business!
 
Nope...

I continued to register to maintain a 1st group status, but I am done with Moose hunting. Think it is ridiculous that we are given a calf tag anyways....have from the start. Not contributing to the MNR any longer for Moose.

Prefer the deer hunt anyway...
 
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