Moose Hunting with the .416 Barrett

The 416 Barrett is NOT exportable from the US to Canada.
It is claimed to be ballisticly superior to the 50 BMG. I have BOTH and the fact is the 50 BMG IS the better caliber for predictable long range accuracy at extreme long range. As much as I admire Ronny Barrett, the comparisons between the 2 calibers are skewed. To compare a 400 gr ULD to a 647 gr FMJ makes no sense unless you are in marketing and hope no-one figures it out. When compared to the 750 Gr Amax or better yet the 800 gr Barnes, which is what the 400 gr 416 is copied from, the equation is totally different.
Keeping with the same type of test rifle would also not be a bad idea, using velocities for a bolt rifle in the smaller caliber and the velocity for an M2 as the basis for the 50 only makes sense for advertising reasons.

As for needing anywhere near that amount of horsepower for anything that eats grass in North America at a range of only 500 yards is ridiculous.
I hunt big game with my 50 and a 500 yard shot is considered up close and far too personal. About the same as shooting a deer at 50 yards with a 338.
The 416 Barrett does not have any decent hunting bullets available at this time. Yes it uses the same 416 caliber bullets that the Rigby uses, but they do NOT have a BC even on the same planet as the solid brass ULD that the Barrett is built to use. I see the same problem for the 408 it has not lived up to the claims and bullets for the 408 are a real issue.
The video that circulated a year or so ago showing " Iraqi's" being blown up by a sniper with a 50 was total BS. Unless the shooter was using HE ammo this does not happen. I have personally killed many animals with the 50BMG at some rather long ranges and all you get is a hole both sides sometimes and on occasion just an entry hole. I have seen far more meat damage done with smaller calibers like 270 using Ballistic Tip type bullets. Needless to say shooter skill is paramount and bullet type and placement are crucial when using the 50 at extreme long range.
For someone to say that long shots are unethical makes me laugh. I would suggest that most serious long range hunters far more acute to their limitations, both of skill and equipment. For those of us who spent many thousands of rounds every year shooting 1000 yards or more, how is this considered unethical, when compared to the 95% of the North American hunters who typically shoot under 100 rounds at distances well under 500 yards, then go hunting with equipment that is barely adequate for 200 yard shots?
I get a real kick out of bowhunting advocates who claim that killing an animal with a bow is more ethical and sporting. I suspect more animals are wounded and lost by bow hunters than long range rifle hunters. I used to bow hunt, and was quite accomplished at it , but hearing from other archers about all the 1s that got away and experiencing this myself on 2 occasions helped me loose the bowhunting bug.
I have NEVER had an animal NOT die within seconds of being shot at extreme long range.
I do NOT advocate that extreme long range hunting is something anyone can do, but with the right equipment , and a high degree of skill, which is only achieved through regimental practice at the range and at real world distances not simulated ones, I fail to see how this is unethical.

I know nothing of the hunting laws in Ontario, but would ask to see where the regulations say that 50 BMG is not allowed, I got that same BS from a F&W officier here in Alberta, but when asked to show me where in the Alberta Hunting regulations this was stated he was at a loss to provide it in print. I have a couple of friends in BC who also use their 50s for hunting so assume it to be legal there as well.
KK
 
Who would I even contact to find out this information? Minsitry of Natural Resources? I saw that Ellwood Epps had a Steyr in .50 BMG on the shelf and that started this whole bug. They are the ones who told me that you cannot hunt in Ontario with a .50 BMG, and that the only 1000 yard range in Ontario is at Camp Borden. I'm not interested in buying one to shoot only at a range. That's the same reason I don't own any handguns. For me personally, it would be a waste of money if I couldn't use it for hunting.

Regards,

Slooshark1
 
Being retired has some benefits. More range time is 1 of them. Being able to indulge my addiction is nice too.

Slooshark There are not many ranges in Canada that are 50 friendly, at least out west. There is nothing close to Calgary, 1 near Edmonton and 2 that I am aware of in BC. Sorry no useful info on what might be in Ontario.
The F&W office would be my 1st place to start. You will most likely need to climb the chain of command to find a supervisor who can actually ascertain what the legal , if any , maximum caliber is. Most provinces have a minimum caliber restriction, but in my experience they never took 50bmg into consideration, so few have a "too much horsepower" restriction.
In the US some states have passed laws restricting where the 50s can be used, mostly due to population densities. This may be a concern out your way.
1 thing I can tell you about hunting with a 50 is that you will attract unwanted additional scrutiny from F&W. Every time I get checked, it is the same drill, most COs are not aware of the full nuances of the laws they are to enforce, so I seem to spend alot of hunting time educating them.
Also you will have to be very cognizant of your drop zone. A 50 has well over 2 miles of useful lethality, to have a bullet go through an animal and keep going is common. My fear is that it will only take 1 mistake or accident and the government will be all over the 50 in a negative way. This would be unfair as many accidents occur yearly with smaller calibers, but they seem to be acceptable. I guess there must be varing degrees of dead by government standards. It is sad that those who favor big guns get held to closer scutiny than those with little 1s, the same is true at the range. It is always the 50s that get blamed for damage to backstops and target stands.
Unfortunately the 50s and bigger have a bad rap, based almost wholly on wrong info and BS that is taken for gospel.
KK
 
I took another look at Ontario regs and they mention nothing about maximum Cartridges. The only thing I found is : NO rimfire, no shotguns smaller than 20 gauge or loaded with shot smaller than no.1 buck or SG.....: I wonder how many moose have been taken with SG and No.1 buck;)

I can fully see the usefullness of a 50 in some areas where Ive hunted. Ive been in some large cuts and swamps where 1000 yard shots are common especially when heading towards Foleyet and Chapleau where its less of a bog forest and more High ground with rolling hills.

As for practicing with this Beast around here... I can tell you the the local 120 yard Shooting Range isnt' gonna cut it, so back out the cuts you would have to go or a sandpit that would allow you to back up a km or so which I havent' seen yet.
 
Big game with a 50 is a great challenge. The opportunities for safe extreme long range shots are harder to find, but in my experience worth the extra hassle. To kill a moose at 1400 yards is a thrill 1 has to experience 1st hand to really appreciate.
There is far more to it than just finding an unsuspecting victim, setting up and shooting.
A huge amount of range time, and ammo is required prior to the season. High quality optics and rangefinders are a must.
I have booked a trip to South Africa for the spring of 2007. South Africa being 1 of the few 50 cal friendly countries on the dark continent.
They have antelope (eland) that weigh up to a ton or more I am told, and parts along the edges of the Kalahari are good for very long shots on these large critters.
I can't wait to for spring!!
KK
 
KK,

That sounds awesome. I almost had a prepaid trip to SA about 7 years ago but my boss was a little jealous and wouldn't let me go with pay. I had a new baby and a house and a wife on mat leave so I had to suck it up and only go for my moose and deer hunt that year. Where I was hunting up in Nipigon, it's quite hilly and would be the place for a 50. I think I'll have to sock some money aside for a while before I can make a purchase like this. There a lot of things that I could buy for a young family that would be a lot less selfish than an $7000.00 hunting package. On the other hand, you only live once. I really enjoy still hunting and sneaking up on big game. I've shot a couple of moose in the head under 25 yards after sneaking right up on them and I shot an elk at 10 yards right between the eyes too and that's incredibly exciting. However, it would be fun to take it to the other extreme with the 50 BMG. If the dream materializes, I'll let you know. I will likely need lots of advice because I don't know of anyone in Northern Ontario that has a 50 BMG.

Best regards,

Slooshark1
 
Slooshark1 said:
KK,

That sounds awesome. I almost had a prepaid trip to SA about 7 years ago but my boss was a little jealous and wouldn't let me go with pay. I had a new baby and a house and a wife on mat leave so I had to suck it up and only go for my moose and deer hunt that year. Where I was hunting up in Nipigon, it's quite hilly and would be the place for a 50. I think I'll have to sock some money aside for a while before I can make a purchase like this. There a lot of things that I could buy for a young family that would be a lot less selfish than an $7000.00 hunting package. On the other hand, you only live once. I really enjoy still hunting and sneaking up on big game. I've shot a couple of moose in the head under 25 yards after sneaking right up on them and I shot an elk at 10 yards right between the eyes too and that's incredibly exciting. However, it would be fun to take it to the other extreme with the 50 BMG. If the dream materializes, I'll let you know. I will likely need lots of advice because I don't know of anyone in Northern Ontario that has a 50 BMG.

Best regards,

Slooshark1
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To have killed animals at that close a range is a thrill that is unlike any other. My closest kill with anything was a bow kill at 25 yards and I know that was a rush.
The joys of a bum knee now I can not sneak up on a marching band anymore.
The $7000.00 for a 50 is unfortunately just the tip of the iceberg. That will get you a decent rifle and a pretty good scope , for sure. Loading equipment is not cheap and the ammo is not either. It really chokes me to have to wave goodbye to about $8.00 each time I pull the trigger on a 50 when in Canada. That is about what the cost of reloaded hunting ammo costs me in Canada. Here in Arizona it costs about $4.00 for the same ammo. And it is still real easy to shoot $100.00 worth or more in an afternoon.
With Homeland Insecurity being so efficient I do not dare bring any up, so pay the higher prices when up north.
The worst part I find about the 50 is it is so damn addictive. My wife figures I would have been better off getting hooked on coke, it is cheaper and easier to kick. There is just nothing better than splashing a grapefruit at 1000 yards in my mind, beside I have to get rid of the grapefruit anyway, I may as well do it humanely.:dancingbanana: Maybe I should try 50 on dancing bananas????
KK
 
If really interested and serious about LR hunting, visit longranghunting.com and precisionlongranghunter.com. Here you will learn what it takes to make these long shots in hardware, support equipment AND shooting skills.

Having set myself up to hunt this way, I can tell you this is not for the budget minded hunter. Support optics alone will cost a bunch of green. Then you have to account for all the practise required during the off season.

There are no shortage of LR hunting rifles that shoot better at 300yds then many at 100yds.

The 50BMG is by far the most powerful LR boomer you can get but at the shortish range of 600yds, you are way overgunned. Smaller cals are more accurate too.

There is little need to look beyond the many common 7, 30 and 338 cartridges we presently have. A 300WM/WSM launching 180 to 220gr bullets is more then enough. As would a 7RM/WSM pushing 162gr to 180gr bullets.

Bullet choice is more critical then case displacement. As long as the proper bullets arrive within their designed parameters AND you put it where it is supposed to go, little issue harvesting any grass eater in NA.

Jerry
 
cereal83 said:
You Can hunt with a 50 BMG above the French rivers, so buy a 50 cal and go north :)
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you can use a 50 for hunting in Ontario, as long as it is semiautomatic and you don't get to have more that 5 rounds in the mag. It is even funnier to use with the armor piercing incendiary bullets, so you don't have to dress it.
I shot a deer in the spine @ 230 yds with a 308 and looked not better nor worse than the 700-ish hit bi a fifty a year ago by the one-who's-name-should-not-be-mentioned-because-he-is-banned.

just imagine what a 50 would do....
Picture053.jpg
 
Eltorro Thankyou for posting a picture that demostrates the potential destructiveness of smaller calibers. 1 of these days I will figure out how to post a photo myself.

Bullet placement and construction ARE definiately important, just much more so with 50s.
KK
 
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