Hey All, I'd really appreciate some feedback. Going to be moose hunting this year for the first time. In a previous thread I mentioned I have a mini 30 for deer, and have started researching the browning BAR for a large game rifle. That said, I am totally open to suggestions - bolt, semi, lever, whatever. What are some good options for large game, (in around the $1000 mark)?
Moose hunting
- Thread starter HeavyT
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
for around 1000...i'd go with a used Sako 7mm RM
- Location
- Possum Lodge.... Bracebridge,Ontario
If you want to go lever try the Browning BLR. Wife bought me one for christmas and love it. Browning BAR is another good rifle to get. Just remember to mount some good optics on the gun also.
I'm not sure I have a real preference, with semi's i like that you can break a quick followup shot, but with bolts I understand that they can generally be more accurate, taking away the need. I've shot all the variations, and am comfortable with all.
for $1000 you would have quite a lot of options. Don't forget to factor in the price of a scope and rings unless you're hunting in areas where open sites are better. Don't go cheap on the glass either.
I would think that Savage, Remington, and the Howa/Weatherby Vanguard would be good choices for a bolt action in the $600-$700 range, leaving $300 or so for glass and rings.
I don't know too much about levers or semi-autos so I will leave that advice to others.
I would think that Savage, Remington, and the Howa/Weatherby Vanguard would be good choices for a bolt action in the $600-$700 range, leaving $300 or so for glass and rings.
I don't know too much about levers or semi-autos so I will leave that advice to others.
An old indian I hunted with told me "Moose are as easy to kill as a man."
Elk are tough, large hearts, high endurance, very fast.
The .30-30 or the 7.62 ComBlock (with 150 grain bullets) would be what I would consider the lower edge of moose rounds.
Most moose are not shot at great ranges, the territory they inhabit tends to negate the probability of long shots.
.308 or .30-'06 with 170-to-180 grain bullets, pretty much any 6.5mm that does a good job of 140 grain-or-heavier bullets...
Frankly, if you've got $1k to spend, drop $500 on this :http://www.frontierfirearms.ca/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17_18_63_177&products_id=541
Savage package in .300 WinMag, spend another $200 a bunch of different factory ammo to see what it likes best, then pick-up another 200 rounds of that, and you are good to go.
Elk are tough, large hearts, high endurance, very fast.
The .30-30 or the 7.62 ComBlock (with 150 grain bullets) would be what I would consider the lower edge of moose rounds.
Most moose are not shot at great ranges, the territory they inhabit tends to negate the probability of long shots.
.308 or .30-'06 with 170-to-180 grain bullets, pretty much any 6.5mm that does a good job of 140 grain-or-heavier bullets...
Frankly, if you've got $1k to spend, drop $500 on this :http://www.frontierfirearms.ca/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17_18_63_177&products_id=541
Savage package in .300 WinMag, spend another $200 a bunch of different factory ammo to see what it likes best, then pick-up another 200 rounds of that, and you are good to go.
I have a moose hanging in my workshop just about every year. There is no way I would use a 30-30 on a moose, or anything less than 180 grain. There are people who hypothesize about how easy they should be to hunt and kill, but for those of us who regularly hunt and kill, we use bigger guns with much more energy.
At minimum, I use 30.06 with 180 grain. Moose can be close, but you still need to have a round with at least 2200 foot pounds out to 100 yards. Its a big animal and needs a round with penetration.
You always hear about lucky shots, but you don't hear about how many moose run away with a wound because some cowboy has a small pea-shooter.
At minimum, I use 30.06 with 180 grain. Moose can be close, but you still need to have a round with at least 2200 foot pounds out to 100 yards. Its a big animal and needs a round with penetration.
You always hear about lucky shots, but you don't hear about how many moose run away with a wound because some cowboy has a small pea-shooter.
gunrunner100
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- NW Ontario
Get an accurate rifle that you are comfortable with. Minimum 308/270 Winchester and go up from there. Moose don't care what they're shot with if it's hit in the right spot. You can just as easily wound a moose with a 30-378 Weatherby as you can with a 308 Winchester by bad shot placement.
Tell this to all the hunters in Sweden and Finland with their 6.5x55. Or all the hunters on the west coast of Newfoundland who religously hunt with the.270I too hunt moose almost every year. I use a .300win mag. (only because it was a great deal on a great rifle) However my hunting partner uses a 6.5x55 and takes a moose cleanly every year. I have done more than 1 bang flop with my old .270 Winchester Ranger. at 300+ Yards. If you NEED a 30-06 to kill a moose something is wrong. BTW just as many moose are running around wounded with 30-06 rounds in them as with anything else.
FWIW I have never wounded and lost an animal. Shot placement is crucial with any calibre.
get a nice bolt action man, i would get a 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag, or 30-06. 30-06 in my opinion is the best starter hunting rifle, shes got some power behind er that wont break the bank (for a hunting rifle), and itl drop whatever your hunting no problem given you place the shot right of course.
ive killed moose with, 7mm rem mag, 300wm 30-06, 8mm mauser, bow hunting from a tree stand
you can kill any animal with almost any gun (lung shot)
but what is ethical and what should you use to have the quickest kill and not have wunded animals lost with a bad shot or if it just doesent hit the right spot
300 win mag for the beast is in my opinion perfect even with this power they might suck it up and start walking
for a low budget i have a parker hail $500 used
med budget i rec a weatherby in a win mag love mine $800 new
have a browning a bolt in 7mm mag love it $1000 new
Have a tika in 308 i think it would be to light if in a 300 mag love it in a 308 though
all in bolt action
you can kill any animal with almost any gun (lung shot)
but what is ethical and what should you use to have the quickest kill and not have wunded animals lost with a bad shot or if it just doesent hit the right spot
300 win mag for the beast is in my opinion perfect even with this power they might suck it up and start walking
for a low budget i have a parker hail $500 used
med budget i rec a weatherby in a win mag love mine $800 new
have a browning a bolt in 7mm mag love it $1000 new
Have a tika in 308 i think it would be to light if in a 300 mag love it in a 308 though
all in bolt action
Fiddler brings-up a good point.
One generally wants to be fairly precise in shot placement for a quick "knock-down".
My last moose took about 3 jogging moose-steps before he collapsed. My father and I took him out in quarters.
Had he taken another 2 steps, he'd have gone over an embankment that would have meant Dad and I would have carried ol' Mr Moose out a roast at a time.
And if you ever shoot a moose standing near water, you better anchor it instantly, because he'll turn and leap into the deepest, coldest, most slimy swamp that's available, and 1000 lbs of dead moose jammed between a boulder and a stump in 4 feet of icewater is a problem I sure don't want to have to deal with again.
One generally wants to be fairly precise in shot placement for a quick "knock-down".
My last moose took about 3 jogging moose-steps before he collapsed. My father and I took him out in quarters.
Had he taken another 2 steps, he'd have gone over an embankment that would have meant Dad and I would have carried ol' Mr Moose out a roast at a time.
And if you ever shoot a moose standing near water, you better anchor it instantly, because he'll turn and leap into the deepest, coldest, most slimy swamp that's available, and 1000 lbs of dead moose jammed between a boulder and a stump in 4 feet of icewater is a problem I sure don't want to have to deal with again.
- Location
- London, Ontario
Sounds like you have a VERY fun sounding story there Splatter 
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
Much thanks to Ruffed Grouse
Lots of people come to CGN asking what their first hunting rifle should be. There are probably 200 such threads started every year. Lots of people volunteer great advice, but it is hard to get the full picture. People coming to CGN are probably hear to get more than just the basic answer, and a wealth of information is available. I've typed up a summary of the typical good advice given in 'first hunting rifle question threads'. I've tried to do this based on what really comes up from the CGN community in general, in many cases I'm doing little more than summarizing standard CGN answers in this one place with no new insight, but of course there is some of my opinion slipping in here and there. I've organized it by cartridge, with some description of the sorts of rifle each cartridge typically goes with. Once through the cartridges, I give a (very non-exhaustive) list of some rifle options in some of these chamberings, all of which could make good first 'all around' rifles, and then finish it off with a couple of thoughts that come up again and again about scopes for beginners.
Note: I have at least some experience with most of these guns and cartridges, but there certainly can be some things I've gotten outright wrong, missed, or that are true in my personal experience, but not broadly (for example my experiences of ammo availability). Should this post pan out and be useful to a lot of people, I'll update as people set me straight. Also, I've only included 'CGN reference' links to anything that immediately came to mind. I'll add to these too if this post proves useful.
A list of cartridges for first hunting rifles
.243 Winchester: This light-kicking cartridge is typically billed as a combination varmint/medium game cartridge. Truth is that 'perfect' rifles for these two types of pursuits can be very different. In a typical sporter configuration and if the shooter sticks to the heavier bullet weights, this will be a perfectly reasonable rifle for the hunter who is going after deer and black bears, with maybe the odd shot at a coyote. A variety of ammunition options are out there. The downside is that the cartridge is marginal on larger game like elk or moose; experienced hunters take moose humanely with this cartridge, but it's not for a beginner.
Ideal game range: up to and including deer and black bear
Ammo availability: Very good
Typically chambered in: bolt actions
CGN reference: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=423081
.25-06 Remington: This is also a combination cartridge. Everything said for the .243 goes here, but with a little bit more omph. This cartridge is getting a little powerful to be a typical choice for a coyote gun, but it'll sure do! This is often considered the minimum sensible elk cartridge, with the heaviest bullets.
Ideal game range: deer and black bear, elk with care
Ammo availability: Good
Typically chambered in: bolt actions
6.5x55 Swedish: A perennial CGN favourite! Those of us who are students of ballistics have figured out that the typical bullets that go with this cartridge provide for a bullet that can be relied on to penetrate well, that will fly fast enough to be useful out to the limit of ranges 99% of us have any business shooting at game, and is light enough that useful speeds can be achieved with very modest recoil. This cartridge can be a sensible option for someone on a budget because good sporterized Swedish military bolt action rifles are available (ideally from one of CGN's sponsors). Most gun stores will have some ammo on hand, because there are lots of the sporterized guns out there, but you won't have a big range of options. This is widely considered the minimum sensible cartridge for moose.
Ideal game: medium game plus elk and moose, with care
Ammo availability: Limited
Typically chambered in: Swedish military and European bolt actions
CGN reference: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=420052
.270 Winchester: The classic western big game cartridge. Flat shooting and carrying respectable power. Recoil is starting to creep up a little bit, but like every non-magnum cartridge from here on in the list, a bit of care, not too light a rifle, and a recoil pad, and most importantly good form and you'll have no problem.
Ideal game: medium game plus elk and moose
Ammo availability: Very good
Typically chambered in: Primarily bolt actions, but available in pumps and semi-automatics
7mm-08 Remington: This cartridge is very similar to the 6.5x55, but with a little bit better ammo selection. Any gun shop ought to have a couple of loads on hand, and you could even find it at Canadian Tire. This is often what guys buy for their wives, but it is a great choice for anybody, and is available in a wide range of factory rifles. Any more powerful than this cartridge (so anything listed below this, with the addition of the .270 Winchester and with the exception of the .30-30) the recoil from the lightest guns might start to feel a little stiff
Ideal game: medium game plus elk and moose, with care
Ammo availability: Good
Typically chambered in: bolt actions
.30-30 Winchester: Paired with the Winchester 1894 and Marlin 336 lever action rifles, this is the quintessential Eastern deer cartridge. It is often said that the .30-30 has taken more North American game of all sizes than any other cartridge (for Canada, specifically, this honour may go to the .303 British, see below). This mild recoiling cartridge, with it's modest velocity is well suited for taking game at short to modest ranges. Can't go wrong here.
Ideal game: all game at modest range
Ammo availability: available everywhere, above any barn door beside the 22
Typically chambered in: lever action rifles
.300 Savage: Outclassed ballistically, but a fine old cartridge nonetheless. The .300 Savage provides ballistics just a bit behind the .308 Winchester, and was once population enough that ammo is widely available, with a couple of loads typically to be found even on Canadian Tire shelves.
Ideal game: all game at modest range
Ammo availability: available everywhere, above any barn door beside the 22
Typically chambered in: Savage '99 lever action, plus a few other miscellaneous chamberings
.308 Winchester: Modern compact versatility. 'nuf said.
Ideal game: all game
Ammo availability: many different loads, available everywhere
Typically chambered in: bolt, pump and semi-auto
CGN reference: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=431101
.30-06 Springfield: Classic versatility. The recoil is noticeably, but slightly, stiffer than the .308, and it provides about 100 fps higher velocities in most bullet weights. Part of the trio of obvious choices (.30-06, 12 ga., .22 lr).
Ideal game: all game
Ammo availability: many loads available everywhere
Typically chambered in: bolt, pump and semi auto actions
CGN reference: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=396078
.303 British: The Canadian backwoods classic. These were available for peanuts in the 60's and 70's at hardware stores, in full beautiful full wood. You can get them now in full wood, and for cheaper, i.e., ~$100 in 'bubbaed' sporter configurations. Just don't cut down a full wood one, or you may be banned from CGN.
Ideal game: all game
Ammo availability: available everywhere
Typically chambered in: Lee-Enfield bolt actions
CGN reference: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=421358
32 Special: This is a ballistic twin to the .30-30, but makes a very slightly bigger hole.
Ideal game: all game at modest range
Ammo availability: fairly widely available
Typically chambered in: (used) Winchester lever action rifles
.338 Federal: This is a fairly new cartridge. Federal had the bright idea to take the most sensible amount of powder capacity for a general use cartridge (.308), and neck it up to a bit more of a bullet. In a world full of hype for faster cartridges, many gun gurus saw this as a breath of fresh air. While the .338 Federal is new, it is probably here to stay, and several different loadings are available, but not very widely.
Ideal game: all game
Ammo availability: limited
Typically chambered in: bolt actions
35 Remington: One of the older cartridges, not hugely popular but it has a enough of a following that ammo is generally available. It is useful for all the same situations as the .30-30 or 32 special, but offers a little more thump by virtue of the bigger bullet. It recoils a little more, but performs a little more too.
Ideal game: all game, modest range
Ammo availability: few loads, but fairly widely available
Typically chambered in: lever actions
35 Whelen: Except that this cartridge doesn't go with lever guns, what goes for the 35 Remington goes for this cartridge double. The 35 Whelen provides the bullet and power to put game down. But we're starting to get into some recoil here, especially with heavier bullets.
Ideal game: all game
Ammo availability: fairly widely available
Typically chambered in: bolt, pump and semi autos
.45-70: A big calibre jump from the 35 calibres that we've discussed here. There are certainly plenty of cartridges in between. But we're skipping over them because of excessive recoil and/or very poor availability. Some mild loadings of .45-70 are very widely available, including at Canadian Tire. The .45-70 provides great knock-down power at modest ranges. Unlike magnum cartridges, which get their killing power primarily from high velocity, the .45-70 just makes a no-nonsense big old hole in things. This is an old cartridge, but the main rifle for this cartridge these days is the Marlin model 1895, the 'guide gun' configuration of which is especially drooled-over by CGNers.
Ideal game: all game at modest range
Ammo availability: limited range of loads, but widely distributed
Typically chambered in: primarily Marlin lever action rifles
Whole classes of cartridges that didn't make the cut. Some of these might be worth some thought for people for whom ammo availability isn't going to be an issue, or are committed to a magnum.
Hard-to-find but otherwise worthy cartridges:
- the 6mm Remington has a very, very slight edge ballistically on the .243 Winchester
- the .257 Roberts and 250 Savage fall between the .243 and .25-06, and may be the perfect cartridges for people who are just going to hunt deer.
- the .260 Remington could be considered a modernization of the 6.5x55, it fits in a shorter action
- the 7mm Mauser is a classic that matches the 7mm-08, but doesn't fit in a short action
- the .280 Remington is a little snappier than the 7mm-08 and right between the .270 and .30-06. No game will no the difference if hit by it instead, and somehow it seems to have a little more panache.
- the .358 Winchester is a very sensible cartridge, and my current personal favourite.
- the .375 Winchester is another low velocity cartridge that pushes a big bullet to effectively take game at modest ranges.
- several handgun cartridges, including the .357 magnum, 45 long Colt, and .44 magnum provide low recoil options for hunting medium game, normally in very handy little lever action rifles. These don't really deserve exclusion based on ammo availability, rather, they just are not normally considered as all around hunting rifle cartridges. But for some they might be just the thing.
22 calibre centerfire cartridges (22 hornet, 222, 223, 22-250, 220 swift) can in principle be used to kill just about anything. With careful bullet and shot choice, this can be accomplished humanely. But hunting big game with these cartridges and beginners looking for their first rifle don't go together. Furthermore, these cartridges are not legal for hunting big game in all provinces. Here is the classic CGN reference on the subject http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278294
Along with some of the more powerful cartridges we've gone through here, there are a bunch of powerful options left out. Very often people ask about getting magnums for their first rifles; somehow people gravitate towards the 30 calibre magnums. With good form, pretty much anybody can learn to shoot a magnum well. But it is far from ideal and it's expensive. The benefit of magnums really doesn't pay off except at longer ranges than most new shooters should be attempting on game. In addition to higher velocities and consequently flatter trajectories, magnum cartridges do hit game hard. There is little practical difference though, from the on-game performance tat you can get with the more powerful cartridges that we've discussed in a bit of detail here.
A note for new Southern Ontario hunters. Keep in mind that the gun seasons for deer in much of Southern Ontario are shotgun/muzzleloader only (if you have not done your hunter ed course yet, you'll find out all about this soon). Also, shooting any small game and predators in many municipalities is limited to rifles nominally of .275 or less. There is some confusion about whether or not the .270 is allowed or not. The letter of the law is 'nominally', and it is indeed smaller than .275 in name, and so is allowed. For the metric calibers, 6.5mm is OK, 7mm is not.
Ruffed Grouse's non-exhaustive list of first gun suggestions
I'll start with the three major budget choices, and then after that I'll go by action type.
1) Lee-Enfield: Sporterized LE No1m3 and No4m1's (essentially exclusively in .303 British) are widely available for between $100 and $300 or so. There is no reason why you can't hunt with a full wood on, and they run around $400 or so. Scoping these guns can be a bit tricky, so ask someone experienced about what is required for any particular Lee-Enfield you may be interested in buying. These have a well-earned reputation for withstanding abuse (though they shouldn't have to), and still going bang when the time comes.
2) Mauser 96: These are available primarily as former Swedish military rifles. They are chambered primarily in 6.5x55 but are available in other cartridges including .30-06. The main source for these is Trade-Ex, a CGN sponsor, who list lots of m96 sporters on their web site, like the Lee-Enfield and most other military surplus rifles, mounting a scope can be a bit of trouble, so consult someone about the requirements for any particular gun that interests you. These have a reputation for being the most accurate mil-surps available. [People who don't know better will call the m96 action weak. It is less strong than it's younger brother, the Mauser of 1898, but is perfectly safe, providing that it has not been abused. The 'weak' designation does apply to pre-96 Mauser models, that were very early steps in the evolution of bolt action rifles. Similarly, people will call factory 6.5x55 ammunition 'underloaded'. Ballistically speaking, it is, because it has to be mild in case someone goes using it in the pre-96 Mauser models. But it is still powerful enough to take any game at reasonable hunting ranges.]
3) Stevens model 200: This budget rifle is currently available in .25-06, .270, .30-06, .243, 7mm-08, and .308, as well as a small selection of .22 centerfire and magnum cartridges. Price is in the $350-400 range. These economical rifles shoot straight, but as you become more gunnutty, the entry level stock and trigger may start to seem sub-par quite fast. The upside is that as you become more of a gun nut, you'll quickly learn about the available options for upgrading these things. The basic Stevens/Savage action is compatible with a wide range of after market upgrade parts. Other budget bolt action rifles include the Marlin XL7 and the Remington 770; the latter works and is widely available, but other budget rifles are generally considered better choices on CGN.
4) The big names bolt actions: These include offerings from Remington, Savage, Winchester, Browning, Tikka, Sako, and Whetherby. Each of these comes in many variants, including 'all weather' stainless models, cammouflage models, pretty wood-stocked models, more basic hardwood or plastic stocked models, and ultralight configurations. Each comes with it's selling points. For example, the Savage centerfires come with what many consider the best factory trigger, Sakos are well known for having very smooth actions, and the current incarnation of the Winchesters have some very nice wood on them. Pair any of these with one of the sensible cartridges and hunt away. Budget configurations of these guns are typically priced in the $600 range, and the finer versions often go for over $1000. Pick what seems right to you, as they will all perform in sensible chamberings. Many of these rifles come in 'target' configurations, and these are typically a bit heavy for hunting rifles.
5) Remington 7600: This is the main pump action rifle out there. It is available in a wide variety of chamberings, but .30-05 and 35 Whelen are favourites.
6) Winchester model 1894: Chambered in .30-30 or 32 Special, it's a classic. This gun is no longer in production, except this year in an expensive commemorative version, but lots are available used. Model '94s manufactured before 1964 are especially valued, but for the most part the pre-post 64 debate shouldn't bother a first time rifle buyer. Most '94s eject spent cartridges straight up, and this can be a problem for scope mounting. Many people find the model '94 to be the easiest carrying and handiest-to-the-shoulder hunting rifle out there.
7) Marlin 336: Chambered in .30-30 or 35 Remington, this is a very sensible option. Marlin lever actions are known for being as strong and reliable as most bolt actions. This gun ejects spent cartridges on an angle such that mounting a scope is less of a problem than with the Winchester model '94.
8) Savage model '99: Another out of production lever action with a big following. This lever action rifle deviates from the norm in that it doesn't feed from a tubular magazine. With the exception a 'clip'model, this rifle feeds from a really slick internal rotary magazine, so it can be used safely with modern cartridges loaded with pointed bullets. This gun is a classic when chambered in .300 Savage, but a range of calibers are available, and .308 is very common. An alternative in-production box-fed lever rifle is the Browning BLR, but your typical Savage '99 lover would find this a poor substitute (personal bias creeping in?).
9) Marlin 1895: I included the .45-70 in the list of all around cartridges, and so I should include the main gun that goes with it nowadays. This a favourite of folks who have to deal with (real or perceived) bear threats. The Marlin 1895 is capable of handling .45-70 loads that are much more powerful than the standard factory ammo (again, this ammo is loaded very light compared to its potential because of the risk of it being used in older rifles), and if handloading appeals to you, you can really make this gun and cartridge combination a thumper. But even with factory ammo, you'll be able to put down game with authority. The picture I'm including is the much drooled-over stainless guide gun version, but a more subdued blued/walnut version exists too. See CGN's own Camp Cook with his Marlin guide gun in action in this youtube video h ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XCB4A911SM
A couple of thoughts about scopes
Most hunting rigs include scopes. The range of scopes that are available out there, and the technical jargon that goes with them, can be just as intimidating as the ranges of rifles and cartridges. Considerations regarding scopes have filled many threads on CGN. Here I'll just summarize some of the basic advice.
1) Magnification is not necessarily one of the major considerations, and high magnification is overrated. Costs of high magnification include: narrow field of view, scope weight, cost, and reduced light transmission. The larger objective lenses that typically go with high magnification scopes can require that a scope be mounted high, which can compromise shooting form. Scopes in the 1-4 power range will probably do for most shooters in most circumstances. 2-7 power scopes are sensible for a lot of people too, and the higher end magnification of a 2-7 (or higher) can be really useful when sighting in or evaluating accuracy of different loads at the range. 3-9 or 4-12 power ranges are often chosen by people for whom long shots in open areas are likely, but do think carefully about the drawbacks of high magnification. Variable scopes are not necessary: the simplicity of fixed scopes have real benefits.
2) You get what you pay for in terms of optical quality, quality of construction, and service. CGNers often recommend Bushnell's Elite 3200 line and Leupold's VX-I line as sensible entry level scopes, that will be clear, reliable, and for which the companies will provide good service in case anything goes wrong. These sell in the $250-$300 range for 2-7 power. Here are a couple of CGN links about scope service: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=425235 http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158873
I hope this helps!! Every topic I've touched on here just scratches the surface, and CGNers can provide with lots more information.
RG
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And tell this to our very own John Y Cannuck, as I'm pretty sure it was him who used his underqualified .30-30 1894 to kill a moose very dead with a photo to prove it. (John, photo, please!)
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