Moose with a 45-70?

45/70 double rifle

Some time back I was looking at a web site at "Spartan" side by side doubles. One in 45/70. I could imagine myself in a willow jungle calling a rut crazed bull moose to me and gripping that double.

First I heard that Remington was going to be importing these guns from Russia. Then they were not. Anyone know anything about them?

Robin down under
 
The Horn 350 is probably the best big game bullet but all my 45-70s have prefered the 405 jacketed Rems. One awesome shooting bullet, can be used in the Guide gun if you crimp at the first *xfnk ( I don't know what it's called :rolleyes: ) instead of the crimping groove!

For you guys that call the old 45-70 a short range gun, I tried a volley at 462yds (range finder)! I put the crosshairs level with the top of the target board & let fly with the old Siamese & 20 mins later (had to walk there:D ) found 3 hole centered about 3" low & right in an 8" pattern :eek:

Best part is you touch of the shot & listen to the bullet fly down there :) , sounds like an artilery round :runaway: :D

Oh I know I'm rambling again :redface:
 
.45-70

I used the 350 grain Speer over a healthy dose of IMR 3031 in a Browning carbine on a nice bull moose last fall. One shot as he was quartering towards me @ 40 yards. Bullet entered at front edge of near shoulder and I found it under the hide close behind the far shoulder. Nose sort of flattened back to the crimping groove and penetrated straight. I was quite pleased. This is a hard bullet!

I also shoot 400 grain cast occassionaly from this and two original 1886 rifles (1 oct barrel rifle and 1 EX Light weight) with good results. Bullets are from an original Winchester .45-70 mould that came with one of the rifles.

When I first bought the Browning I tried to buy some 350 grain Hornady bullets but they were out so I tried the Speers and have been using them ever since.

Regards,

Outdoors
 
400gr SPEER

Hi,

Will use mine (Marlin 1895) with 400gr Speer bullets for my backup rifle while moose hunting. The grouping is not as good as I expected but I am still in developpement loads, so all testing is not done yet. I am tempted to use it as my main gun and use my 7MMRM as the backup..:eek: don't know anymore :confused:.
I sure would like to shoot Mr moose with the 45-70 wow, that would be awesome :D :cool: .
Hornady bullets are also a good choice and I will try them after hunting because I leave wednesday for moose :D .

Good luck
 
I know I've jokingly put down the 45/70 in previous posts.However moose hate big bullets.Large bullets going at moderate velocities sure have a high shock value.
 
All right, the information and opinions are sinking in very well. Thanks to all that have contributed so far.

My next question: Is there much of a benifit to trying to find that special combination of a bullet and powder to get the best groups or should I just work a load up to the maximum safe point? I know the long range precision shooters depend heavily on hand loaded ammuntion for accuracy but is a 100 yard 45-70 shot going to have to be tuned in the same way?
 
Can you handle the recoil from a load worked to the max safe point? I'ld be looking for a warm load you can shoot comfortably, but not neccessarily the heaviest the gun can handle...but that is just MHO.....
 
I am kind of a chubby bugger so the recoil should not be much of a problem. I weigh in at 230# and nothing has put me on my a** yet and I do not bruise. I would certainly put up with the heavier recoil if it was going to stabilize the bullet more.
 
Some of the bullets mentioned in this post failed miserably in our bone box tests, the 400gr. speer was the worst......all we found were bits and pieces of it....we only tested bullets that could be crimped properly to fit in the Marlin '95 as we were using heavy loads(1800 fps+).....various LBT and Chambers designs weighing over 400grs. and cast hard held together best. The Chambers' 465 and 480gr. bullets driven at over 1900fps damaged the back end of the bone box, we reinforced it and are ready to test bullets for the 500 S&W!
 
In many instances, comparing the performance of a jacketed bullet to that of a hard cast, is like comparing 'apples to oranges'. Yes, hard cast blunt nose or Keith type semi wadcutters can be effectively used for hunting. They will, in most cases, penetrate considerably further than a jacketed type expanding bullet. Virtually any heavy 45 cal projectile will put game down. My main criteria for a bullet to be used for plinking, target shooting and in some cases hunting is accuracy. However, when it comes to an ideal hunting bullet, the criteria changes somewhat. Now I'm looking for not only accuracy but also knock down capabilities. Your hard cast through the 'bone box' deal primarily with one aspect, penetration. Ideally for hunting I'm not looking for something capeable of going through three Moose. What I want is the ability to perhaps just be able to penetrate one. On elephant, rhino,or the such, different question. Other than that I want knock down power & maximum tissue damage and to expend all possible energy in the animal. Having said that, I do use a number of cast in my Marlin 1895 GS;
- 325gr LFN GC
- 345gr LFN BB
- 405gr LFN BB
- 420gr LFN GC
I also have a couple that I use primarily in my .458wm's;
- 525gr LRN PB
- 525 LFN GC
Test results by any manufacturer, distributor or 'front man' have a tendency to be somewhat bias. The type of test, by an independent group, I would really be interested in would be one testing for hunting performance. One where the medium used is a little closer to replicating animal tissue. For me the 400gr Speer has been an excellant performer at .45-70 velocities and I will continue to use it.
Kinda' interested in seeing your tests with the 500 S&W as I have one and load for it, cast & jacketed. Cast bullets;
- 350gr RNFP PB
- 370gr LMN BB
- 440gr LMN GC
Jacketed;
-325gr Speer HP (modified and as/Speer recommended velocities)
-350gr Sierra JHP
-400gr Sierra JFP
-350gr Hornady XTP Mag, HP
-500gr Hornady JFP Mag
 
Well I loaded some ammo last night for the 1895 and will be heading out tomorrow afternoon with a rest and a chrony to try my absolutely ameature skills of reloading. I made 50 cartridges up in matched sets of 5 shots. I am not a big fan of non-jacketed bullets in my rifles but I am certainly not saying anything bad about them. I grabbed some Hornady 350 grain round nose and some Remington 405 grain flat points to try out. I loaded up 3 levels of Varget and 2 levels of H4198 under each bullet style.

I really have no idea what to expect but what the hell.
 
I sighted it in at 75 yards and blasted away. I felt that I got pretty good results for my first real attempt at handloading.

Does the 75 yard sight-in seem reasonable for bush shooting?

The 405's and 350's seemed to be equally accurate with certain powder loads. I really like the 2' fireball that the Varget makes pushing the 350's. Not that it will help me hunting but it was fun. I ended up with some 1.5" to 2" groups at 75 yards off of a shooting rest. I have a non-magnified red-dot on the gun for the sight-in and hunting trip. I have found a couple of fairly decent loads that will allow me to take some of both the 350 grain and 405 grain bullets along and shoot both with no difference in drop at 75 yards.
 
madtrapper143 said:
Keep the 405's under 1450fps. They are good bullets but not designed for fast loads. I load my Browning carbine to about 1375 fps with the 405's. DEADLY. Light recoil.
cheers Darryl
Click to expand...


According to my ballistics 350 & 405s at 1900fps muzzle computes to about 15-1550fps at 100yds & less than 1400 at 150 yds.
Depending on where your hunting 405s might be just the ticket :)
 
Duffy said:
Some time back I was looking at a web site at "Spartan" side by side doubles. One in 45/70. I could imagine myself in a willow jungle calling a rut crazed bull moose to me and gripping that double.

First I heard that Remington was going to be importing these guns from Russia. Then they were not. Anyone know anything about them?

Robin down under
Click to expand...

They are made by Baikal and are imported into the states by Remington as their Spartan line. I know the Don's Gunsmithing sells them (bought a shotgun off him this summer, she's nice). The price he quoted me on those doubles was in the $1500 range
 
With Hornady 350 gr FN 48.0 gr of H4198 give me 2075fps. This what I will be using next week moose hunt. I need to check out the POI this Saturday with my newly mounted Holosight scope.

Danny
 
Have only shot one bear with 350 Hornady r n...........frontal shot at 20 yds.......hit in the chest and came out the back end..bang/flop......no recovery....5 ft. Blackie....chrno'd at 1986 fps Imr 4227 @40.0 gr

......would suspect the 405 Rem at this speed would be every bit as good......as they will shoot one inch/100yds @ 2000fps/ 57.0 gr. Reloader 7.....have only shot through 12 inch log at 75 yds with it.....would guess moose are softer eh..

hs4570.............your mileage may vary
 
I ended up deciding to go with the Remington FP 405's with 46 grains of H4198. Speed is about 1750 fps and groups were under 1.5" with non-magnified red-dot. The error is likely more to do with me than the load.

I am taking some Hornady 350 RN with 60 grains of Varget pushing. They flew about 1825 fps and had 2" or smaller groups. The POI at 75 yards are identical for these two loads.

I am sure I could load them hotter but I am very new to reloading so I am going to play it a bit cool with them for now.

I see that the Buffalo Bore brand bullets are pushing the 405"s at 2150 fps.

I am going to take a 44mag lever with some factory loads as my backup unit.
 
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