More M14 Smithing Advice - When to call a Spade a Fzcking Shovel!

Seafury said:
$250 for a Swiss K-31 or $300 for a M96 Swede gives you a high quality firearm to master your skills with. And the guys that shoot pop cans and water bottles are the ones that the club members end up cleaning up after.
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Both may be very accurate rifles, however I stated Semi-auto battle rifle as per the OP.

The 7.5 and 6.5 are not the cheapest to shoot without loading gear, unlike umpteen billion rounds of Warsaw surplus corrosive 762X39 available or bulk/surplus 762NATO.

As to the garbage clean up, I've never had to clean up any at the club, but I'm sure lot's get busted out in the woods during plinking interludes seeing as both the M14 and the SKS are non-restricted, semi-auto center fire.
 
RememberTheSomme said:
Both may be very accurate rifles, however I stated Semi-auto battle rifle as per the OP.

The 7.5 and 6.5 are not the cheapest to shoot without loading gear, unlike umpteen billion rounds of Warsaw surplus corrosive 762X39 available or bulk/surplus 762NATO.

As to the garbage clean up, I've never had to clean up any at the club, but I'm sure lot's get busted out in the woods during plinking interludes seeing as both the M14 and the SKS are non-restricted, semi-auto center fire.
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Our organization has two public ranges to maintain. They are littered with washing machines, tv sets, bottles, cans shotgun hulls, lots of rim-fire and other non reloadable cases. You make an excellent point about marksmanship. Putting all of your shots in 4" at 100 yds from all four positions is something frequently overlooked by the SKS bench rest club.

I have not seen any surplus 7.62 Nato ammo for sale in quite a while.
 
Just for everyone's information, there are about 350,000 m1a type rifles made in America. 200,000 plus are Springfield!!
I have one of the original Springfield m1a rifles,factory made with all TRW parts. It's number is 7###. Springfield replaced
the TRW bolt which split into two pieces at the roller. They were concerned about what happened and had me send the gun
direct to them for examination and bolt replacement. This gun has shot, usgi, European, and Chinese ammo by the thousands.
It is still going strong after all these years.
The Chinese m14 type rifles are very good rifles, I have put many rounds through them with very few issues that one couldn't
fix. These guns are made to be sold for a reasonable price and they serve this purpose very well.
I have the military m14 rifles. None of the above rifles were meant to replace them in anyway. They all were made so that
the public could own and shoot this type of rifle without restrictions.
 
orthoboy said:
Dreck is the new black. Dreck rifles, I like it.
I'm happy to have paid a good amount of money for my NM and SM M1a's. Then I can blame poor shots on the guy in the mirror, or selfie if you prefer. Please don't be grumpy, we didn't just tell SA to charge whatever they like. But in this market, you either pay the piper or the next guy will, and then you're stuck with whatever is left. That's not going to be me when i have no time for this tinkering. Respectfully.
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I have no problem in paying a fair sum for a quality firearm. But don't sell me a cast receiver and charge me a forged receiver price.
 
I think it's all about maintaining reasonable expectations based on the limitations of the rifles and what you want to get out of them. Norcs are eminently suited for three purposes: inexpensive battle-rifle for the enthusiast on a budget, durable and robust truck/quad "working gun", and blank canvas for the eternal tinkerer who gets his kicks out of home-gunsmithing projects. For all other purposes there are out-of-the-box choices that are likely to be better suited and priced accordingly. You may get lucky and pick up a Cinderella-in-the-rough, but if that's what you're counting on you'd be better off saving up instead.

Norcs are kind of like the Linux of the battle-rifle world ;)
 
LOL.... Great post Barney , sums up a great deal of my own findings and conclusions on these rifles.

I see folks ruining this thread with "the great debate"..... Come now children... Have barney and myself wasted all our breath helping all you noobs?? LOL
I've been building LRB rifles since the first ones came into the country. All the while building , tuning, shooting hundreds of chinese rifles, chinese usgi hybrids, springfield M1A's , a couple Smith enterprise.... Every single manufacturer of these rifles has product that never should have been assembled.
If a guy wants forged... Who cares, let's help him out with advice on what he's wanting. WHY must we feel we need to change his mind? WHY the endless need for debate?
So Squinty, I get it, you want forged? Norinco 2005 or 2007 vintage receivers are nice to work with. Others are as well but those years have provided some of the nicest, tightest and accurate Hybrid rifles using premium GI or equivalent parts.
LRB would be my choice is money was not an option. Are you getting better geometry and "quality" with the LRB? That IS debateable IF you have the hands on experience to take part in that debate. Few in our country do.
 
What makes 2005 and 2007 Norinco production better? What about 2011 Norinco production?

Are LRB receivers as good as Breda or Beretta Garand receivers? Should I just build Garands instead?
 
A .308 or 7.62 build on good US GI or Italian military Garand receiver is always a good bet.

There's been a lot of debate on forged vs investment cast receivers over the years. In theory a quality forged receiver is stronger assuming proper final machining, heat treatment and assembly. But a quality casting with similar quality finish machining, heat treatment and assembly is equally satisfactory.

Ruger firearms are a case in point with a swak of high quality M77 bolt rifles in use for various magnum ctgs which run at higher pressures than the .308 Win. OTOH, there are some crap castings out there which were either cast or finished off spec. An example of these are the M1903A3 clones with receivers marked Federal Ordnance or National Ordnance. These were built up on cast receivers using all US GI 03A3 parts. There have been numerous documented failures of these. I bought one as a parts source a few yrs ago and found that headspace was excessive with significant setback of the bolt lug seats, even though it had been fired very little. It's ultimate destiny will be a whack with a 2 lb hammer to see how quickly it disintegrates. All the other parts have been put to use on a couple of GI receivers.
 
45ACPKING said:
LOL.... Great post Barney , sums up a great deal of my own findings and conclusions on these rifles.

I see folks ruining this thread with "the great debate"..... Come now children... Have barney and myself wasted all our breath helping all you noobs?? LOL
I've been building LRB rifles since the first ones came into the country. All the while building , tuning, shooting hundreds of chinese rifles, chinese usgi hybrids, springfield M1A's , a couple Smith enterprise.... Every single manufacturer of these rifles has product that never should have been assembled.
If a guy wants forged... Who cares, let's help him out with advice on what he's wanting. WHY must we feel we need to change his mind? WHY the endless need for debate?
So Squinty, I get it, you want forged? Norinco 2005 or 2007 vintage receivers are nice to work with. Others are as well but those years have provided some of the nicest, tightest and accurate Hybrid rifles using premium GI or equivalent parts.
LRB would be my choice is money was not an option. Are you getting better geometry and "quality" with the LRB? That IS debateable IF you have the hands on experience to take part in that debate. Few in our country do.
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Not trying to persuade anyone from buying forged. On the contrary it would be my first choice as well but I just don't see that a SAI cast receiver as an issue. I have drooled on the keyboard many times looking at LRB's website. That is nice stuff but you'll have to pony up and pay for it and I have two good M1A rifles that my grandson won't wear out already. So if and when I do decide to buy an LRB there will be a SAI standard rifle for sale to cover 4/7 (what is seven divisible by again?) the cost. Will it really be worth it? That's a question each of us need to ask ourselves.
 
Seafury said:
Not trying to persuade anyone from buying forged. On the contrary it would be my first choice as well but I just don't see that a SAI cast receiver as an issue. I have drooled on the keyboard many times looking at LRB's website. That is nice stuff but you'll have to pony up and pay for it and I have two good M1A rifles that my grandson won't wear out already. So if and when I do decide to buy an LRB there will be a SAI standard rifle for sale to cover 4/7 (what is seven divisible by again?) the cost. Will it really be worth it? That's a question each of us need to ask ourselves.
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I would love an LRB also, by the time I'm done playing with the M1A and the Norinco I could probably buy an LRB but........ as it is I get to play with 2 fun guns and learn a lot (I think) in the mean time playing with them and moding them.
Reamer and go-no go guages on the way!!! Will likely cost waaay too much to build but can't resist the urge, hopefully can find/afford a medium Criterion barrel by spring and a Norincostien will be born as an evil twin for my M1A loaded!! Hope they don't get into a fight in the safe and hurt the other rifles?
Rodney
 
RodAuto;

Give me a shout when you get that set of tools. We can get you started on that install.

In Madrid tonight packing to bus to Granada... South part of Spain and I have free wireless at this hotel. Hopefully the same wireless fun tomorrow. Then I am off to Seville for two nights. Woohoo

We can step up your M14 addiction with them tools you ordered.

Cheers and keep helping them noobs :wave:

Barney
 
RodAuto;

Give me a shout when you get that set of tools. We can get you started on that install.

In Madrid tonight packing to bus to Granada... South part of Spain and I have free wireless at this hotel. Hopefully the same wireless fun tomorrow. Then I am off to Seville for two nights. Woohoo

We can step up your M14 addiction with them tools you ordered.

Cheers and keep helping them noobs :wave:

Barney
 
Any opinions on the JRA rifles in terms of quality and value for the buck? I see they are absent from the discussion
 
Mark-II said:
Any opinions on the JRA rifles in terms of quality and value for the buck? I see they are absent from the discussion
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you would be best served to check U.S. forums on the JRA rifles/parts
I don't think there are enough of them in Canada yet for any of the "pros" up here to really comment.
the same sorta goes for SEI as well.... very , very few in canada
 
TacticalTeacher said:
RodAuto;

Give me a shout when you get that set of tools. We can get you started on that install.

In Madrid tonight packing to bus to Granada... South part of Spain and I have free wireless at this hotel. Hopefully the same wireless fun tomorrow. Then I am off to Seville for two nights. Woohoo

We can step up your M14 addiction with them tools you ordered.

Cheers and keep helping them noobs :wave:

Barney
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Thanks Barney,

Glad to see you are doing what I want to do when I retire...shoot guns, travel..shoot guns!! Will definately contact you when I get the tools, just missing the barrel and the tools to instal the barrel to make it a done deal. Trying to make a deal on another Norinco right now in case I screw this one up and my #### falls off!!!
Rodney
 
Just arranged for Casey at tac ord to install a Krieger barrel that he has in stock for me on the Norinco! Now I have to buy another Norinco in the spring and source another barrel so I can take it to Barney just for the experience and the fun of it!
Rodney
 
You can get a James Rivers in Canada also all Forged I just don't care for the fake selector switch but they are offered with all the good stuff and around a 4 or 5lb trigger.
 
I noticed my Israeli m14 op rod spring guide pin seems to be a hair larger than the hole in the norc receiver. Is this a matter of the receiver being a little small or the pin a little large? Was going to team the receiver, but damn is that steel hard.

I guess a necroposted this one
 
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