More questions..

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NitwiT

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hey all,

I'm back with a few questions again. After that other thread, I have kind of rethought my position, still interested in a 300 or 308 win/mag, however, in terms of a starter rifle I'm now looking at the rest of the T3 line, to try save some carry wait.

I know the difference a heavy barrel can make, but what about laminated/synthetic/wood stock comparisons, advantages/disadvantages to both.

Also, since I'm in the greater vancouver district (wet) should I be holding out for a stainless steel trigger as well.

As to the tikka lineup, whats the biggest difference between a super varmint or the Tika lite, both in stainless..

And well I'm firing away, what would be the most comparable gun in quality to these two from other makers, I'm still hoping for sub MOA out of the box.

(btw, when someone mentions MOA, what range is that at?)

Mark
 
MOA = Minute of angle. Does not depend on range. Google mil-dots and minute of angle, it's a thumping good read.
MOA is basically equal to 1" at 100 yards, 2 at 200..............
 
A full circle consists of 360 degrees. 1 degree = 60 minutes of angle.

1 minute of angle (aka MOA) is roughly 1 inch at 100 yards, 2 inches at 200 yards, and so on.
 
Mark, I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but from what I understand you are very new to the sport, and haven't shot a lot. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If this is the case find yourself a good inexpensive rifle that is cheap to shoot, and shoots well. Maybe even a really good rimfire. Top it with decent glass and practice practice practice. Go out and have fun shooting. Find a coach or mentor and learn the basics, and become a good shot. Once you know you love it as much as you think you do start looking for your dream rifle, maybe something a little more powerful with more recoil. If you have a good foundation in the basics you will enjoy it all the more.

Just my 2 cents. Have fun, and enjoy the journey.
 
Another thought to consider too. If you are just starting out then WHY are you looking to buy a magnum anything? A decent 308,30-06,6.5mm etc etc can be bought new or especially excellent used since there are SO MANY of them out there and also why a magnum in a light little rifle? They can kick your butt and leave you with a flinch. I have owned guns for 50 years and still do not own a magnum with no intention of getting one any time soon. First you decide what you are going to hunt and where and that will tell you a lot about what you need. Maybe you only need a 30-30 or perhaps a 308 would fill the bill nicely.
Aside from that, you shouldnt feel badly about asking questions cuz they can save you a whack of money in the long run. The BIG 4 is generally all you need.
22lr,308,30-06,12ga with substitutions depending on terrain and you can hunt pretty much anything in BC or Ontario or wherever the heck you are. The rest are special application depending on what you are after or what might be after you.
 
Wapitiwhacker and Bogie, those are two of the finest postings I have ever seen on the CGN threads.
But, for some reason I can not figure out, the majority of novice shooters on here, won't listen to sound advice, given by obviously knowledgable, experienced shooters.
 
.308 is a great cartridge to practice with. You can shoot it all day and it won't beat you up. My advice is to try going to a shop and hold/feel as many different rifles as you can. You are better off buying one you will be happy with, even if you have to spend $1000 on it, rather than buying one you have never held, and not liking it...

I'm only 1.5 hrs from the Gander Mountain in NY, and its a great place to fondle guns that you can't find up here locally. They have 5-7000 guns in stock and they're out on the shelves for you to browse without bothering anyone. Can't buy guns there, but I can handle anything I'm interested in, then buy it up here...
 
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missed the part about the rifles I'm looking at being magnums.. i understand about recoil and flinches, and I'm not sure what H(numbers) was talking about, since I am definately paying attention..

now that I think about it, .308 win /MAG is obviously a magnum :D.
 
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as you asked, I have never shot anything over .22, never shot anything beyond 25 yards, and generally am picking all this up as I go. Advice is welcome, but I do need to make my own choice.

If the rifles I am looking at our not a good pick for a guy that wants to shoot long range, and knows how fast he picks something up, than what would you suggest as an alternative.

Please don't just say "oh you know, grab a 30-06", since basically ever gunmaker in the world has a rifle in that caliber in varying weights with varying capabilities.

I picked a market niche to shop in that I thought made sense to me, so by all means, suggest away, even if its aftermarket parts. Only rule is, explain why the rifle you are suggesting is such a good choice.

(btw, just so you know what I've looked into, I've been reading up on mauser/tikka/sako/norinco/ruger/husqvarna(confused me)/swedish to name a couple brands.

Sure, their all cheap guns, but do I want a cheap gun?

Above anything else, I want precision..
 
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NitwiT,

I may have written something like this your previous post - don't intend to be preachy if I'm repeating, but it may be worth it. You'll probably enjoy shooting a magnum (provided your form is right so it doesn't hurt you). But the subconscious side of you doesn't like to be hit!! It will start to flinch!

I started on a .30-06 in a fairly heavy gun. I love that gun and it never hurt me. But even so for a period I did start to have a little flinch developing that was only cured by thousands of rounds of .22 (not unpleasant medicine!).

A magnum, even if shot without a flinch, only offers advantages at very long range, say least past 200 yards in terms of trajectory, and even further before retained energy differences between the common magnums and the basic non-magnum all around cartridges start to come into play.

And how far is 200 yards really? Go in whatever patch of bush you might ultimately be hunting, put a 8 inch circle (~the size of the vitals of a big game animal) of some material on a tree, measure off 200 yards. If you can find a direction where there is an open patch for 200 yards, have a look and see how very far it is in the real world. Well maybe you'll be hunting in a more open area than I typically do, and surely the folks on the board who live in places where they can see the deer two counties over have different experiences. But I feel that the ranges where the benefits of a magnum start to kick in are a long way off.

If you're interested in a Tikka and want something with a little more thump than the ordinary cartridges, you might think a little on the .338 Federal? I have no experience of it directly, but have made careful (shooting, dressing and butchering) examination of shots from .308 and .358 Winchesters, which are exactly on either side ballistics-wise (308 is parent cartridge to all three). My guess is that the .338 Federal (bullet construction depending) is at least as effective a cartridge in terms of terminal performance as a 300 magnum, and is still very flat shooting for virtually all practical purposes. If this cartridge interests you, perhaps some others can give you more information. It won't exactly be a light kicker like a 6.5 or 260 would be, but if you're looking for a little more of a higher performing cartridge it might something that matches your interests as well as some of the hard-earned advice that guys are posting here.

RG

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for myself, its not so much about having the thump, or having the power. I intend to purchase a rifle capable of delivering an accurate round to a decent distance. I will most likely end up using it more for target practice than hunting, since one is schedule based, and the other schedule AND season based.

I understand the downside to a light powerful rifle, and to shooters flinch, or whatever you want to call it :)

The flip side of that is the above stated purpose. From what I've read, cheap easy going hunting guns will leave me wanting in terms of long range performance, whether thats 400 yards or 1000 yards.

So, lemme narrow this down, tikka's are good if i'm looking at the 1000 yard mark right? if not, say so. :D

What is a good rifle, with enough power to put a moose down, that will also allow me at least 1 MOA at 400 yards.
 
Some good council here already, but I'll throw in my twobits worth.

For a "first" centerfire I would definitely stay with something cheap to feed and not to harsh a kicker. Cartridges like the 308win, 3006, 6.5x55, 270win are fine starter cartridges that are useful for most game in western Canada.

I would not get too hung up on stainless and synthetic even though you live in the lowermainland. My first centerfire was(is) a wood on blued steel Winchester in 3006. This rifle is over 30 years old, still shoots less than 1MOA in any weather, and there is not a spec of rust on it anywhere. Stainless rusts too, just slower. It is important to wipe your rifle down after every time you take it out.

I think Blargon brought up a very good idea, go out to a well stocked sporting goods store and handle as many rifles as you can. Some will feel better than others to you. Take note of those that "feel right" and why.

I'll offer my opinion on good quality starters but bear in mind this my opinon biassed by my life experience: Winchester Model 70, Ruger Hawkeye, CZ 550, and Sako.

There are also some outstanding values in used rifles if you know what you want.
 
No offense mate, but are you capable of shooting 1 MOA at 400 yards? :confused:

If you thinking of Tikka, I can say from experience these are great rifles for accuracy. I have owned a .270 and I currently own a 22-250, they have both outperformed my expectations. Right now, my 22-250 shoots half inch groups with walmart ammo at 100 yards.

If your planning on shooting at a grand, you choice in rifles might change a bit. It may take quite a bit of after market customization to achieve a reasonable accuracy at that range, for this, you might shy away from Tikka because they are a factory fit rifle, with little to no options when it comes to after market parts and accessories.

I am not a long range precision shooter by any means, but then again I live in SW ontario, where long range is anything between 200-300 yards. :D

Good luck with the research
 
Nitwit,

A 3006 is very capable of taking moose past 400 yards, I've done it. Doubled lunged a moose, ran about 10 feet and dropped.

If I may... Shooting out to 2 or 3 hundred yards is a whole lot different than 1000 yards. It will probably take you awhile to get competent out to 2 or 3 hundred yards. As well, the rifle you shoot out to 500 yards will probably look different and cost a whole lot less than the rifle you regularly shoot out to 1000 yards.

Buy a nice starter in 3006 or 308, shoot it a lot and then if you find you really like it you can plan a 1000 yard rifle build.
 
As to caliber, my picks would be 308 Win. or 7mm-08. Both inherintly accurate calibers, both used in long distance shooting. 7.62 nato (308 Win) was a favoured sniper round for years, if not decades. 7mm-08 is one of the favoured calibers for metallic silhouette shooting, (offhand at up to 500 meters). Both calibers are easy to find, and easy on both the shoulder and the wallet.

Make or model? westcoaster pretty much summed it up. He also has sage advise regarding long distance shooting. The rifle you want to shoot 1000 yd competition with is not the rifle you want to haul through the bush hunting. They are for the most part very different rifles.
 
ok, that part I understand. I'm tending to lean to the .308, or the 7mm, however, a question I have been unable to answer for myself is what make of gun should I be after in those calibers.

I tried to narrow it down, but there was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to many makes/models.

Any suggestions on where to look for a decently accurate rifle for relatively cheap in 3006, 308 or 7mm?
 
The Remington 700 line up offers some very good rifles that are more than capable. Your new to shooting so you'd probably be best served with a standard sporter wieght rifle, these are what most hunters carry and are capable of moa accuracy, their down side is they require more frequent breaks to allow them to cool down during range sessions.
Heavy bull and fluted barrels lesson this need but it still needs to be done.
Any of the big name manufactures offer a rifle to fill your needs so like others have said before me handle as many guns as you can before you make your choice, you'll be better served with a rifle that fits you best.
DO NOT cheap out on optics, I've seen a few fellows new to the sport spend big $ on a gun then cheap out on the scope and complain for the rest of the time they had the rifle. Leupould, nikon and the bushnell elite line are excellent scopes for price and quality, you can spend even more if you want to and get yourself Swaroski and various other high end german optics.
 
NitwiT said:
while im asking, mossberg has a .308 ATR called a night train, is that what I should look at?
Click to expand...

I would stay away from the Mossberg rifles. They have a less than stellar track record.

As far as manufacturers, I would recommend, in my order of preference, Ruger-Winchester-Remington. All great 'starter rifles' that you might just end up hunting with for the rest of your life....

Good luck.
 
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