Mosin M1891 first pattern bayonet questions

Threemorewishes

Threemorewishes

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Hello Milsurp forum,

I have two M1891 first pattern bayonets that I'm trying to gather information about. There are a jumble of markings on the bayonets and I'm not sure what is what.

The long one has "II" in a circle, a clear "IIK", a clear K and a "T" but a weak "n" and no serial number.

The short one has what might be "II" in a circle (weak stamping), a large "C" (also a weak stamping) and an arrow with trailing feather off the point plus a weak stamped six digit number on the socket.

Do you know what symbol is the makers mark? Are any of the symbols related to what regiment/division used these bayonets?

How common are the short Mosin bayonets? This one does not look cut down, it looks purpose built at this length.

Thanks for any input you may have,

Greg

buH3Crr.jpg
 
Describing markings instead of making clear pictures is not a way to get solid answers. Regardless those are not regiment, but make and technological markings. Short bayonets were never manufactured. Two nations shortened and used M91 bayonets - Finland and Austria. They are very uncommon, however one needs to know how to spot original from fake.
 
Try here;

Mosin-Nagant Socket Bayonets
http://www.old-smithy.info/bayonets/mosin nagant/mosin-nagant.htm

Markings on the bayonets for Mosin Nagant rifle
http://www.old-smithy.info/bayonets/mosin nagant/markings_pliki/markings.htm

World of Bayonets
http://worldbayonets.com/index.htm

Bayonet sites, plus other related sites
http://worldbayonets.com/Links/links.html

Old Smithy, bayonet site
http://www.old-smithy.info/

Bayonet Identification Guide
http://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Identification_Guide/bayonet_identification_guide.html
 
Horilka said:
Describing markings instead of making clear pictures is not a way to get solid answers. Regardless those are not regiment, but make and technological markings. Short bayonets were never manufactured. Two nations shortened and used M91 bayonets - Finland and Austria. They are very uncommon, however one needs to know how to spot original from fake.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, here's a few pictures of the markings. Any idea what to look for on the short one to determine if it's real or fake? Thanks.

Long bayonet markings
W00Pe0Q.jpg

uIFjISG.jpg


Short bayonet markings
Xx2wxUn.jpg


Numbers start with 4 then a really weak 7 and the others are over stamped or too worn out.
yXf6BFD.jpg
 
 
The long bayo is a Tula as indicated by the big hammer stamp. The shorter one is Sestroryetsk judging by the lone arrow. I can't help with the rest I'm afraid. Hopefully some day I find a few of these.
 
Last edited:
There was only one model of 1891 bayonet the long one pictured here. It was used on the 1891 Infantry, 1891 Cossack, and 1891 Dragoon rifles (though wasn’t really issued with the Cossack rifles as they had swords).

The Panshin bayonet (I.e. sight hood bayonet) was a late 20s-early 30s design, made in small numbers with the idea being it could give a sight hood to rifles without one as the Soviets were updating their arms. These were expensive to produce and they didn’t make many.

Horilka’s information is the best here, he is a advanced collector of Soviet arms.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
There was only one model of 1891 bayonet the long one pictured here. It was used on the 1891 Infantry, 1891 Cossack, and 1891 Dragoon rifles (though wasn’t really issued with the Cossack rifles as they had swords).

The Panshin bayonet (I.e. sight hood bayonet) was a late 20s-early 30s design, made in small numbers with the idea being it could give a sight hood to rifles without one as the Soviets were updating their arms. These were expensive to produce and they didn’t make many.

Horilka’s information is the best here, he is a advanced collector of Soviet arms.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I agree that there were no "short" dragoon bayonets, and that Panshin for Dragoon rifles is totally different beast, so not really relevant. Unfortunately I'm not very experienced with Finnish side of MNs and accessories and the one in OP looks like Finnish cut as Austrian has pointed end (not a "screwdriver" type). Apart of this I can't help with identification and verification. However I would recommend to post on GunBoards, there are gentlemen there that would be able to help, I am very sure.
 
sail32 said:
Information suggests that the Dragoon bayonet had a front sight hood as part of the bayonet.

There is a difference in Mosin Nagant between Imperial Russia, and the USSR's updating Mosin Nagants starting in 1930.

https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?873393-Dragoon-bayonet-%97-Panshin

http://www.old-smithy.info/bayonets/mosin nagant/mosin-nagant.htm

Finnish Bayonets, scroll down.

http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/Finn-bayonets.asp
Click to expand...

Eaglelord17 said:
There was only one model of 1891 bayonet the long one pictured here. It was used on the 1891 Infantry, 1891 Cossack, and 1891 Dragoon rifles (though wasn’t really issued with the Cossack rifles as they had swords).

The Panshin bayonet (I.e. sight hood bayonet) was a late 20s-early 30s design, made in small numbers with the idea being it could give a sight hood to rifles without one as the Soviets were updating their arms. These were expensive to produce and they didn’t make many.

Horilka’s information is the best here, he is a advanced collector of Soviet arms.
Click to expand...

Horilka said:
Thank you. I agree that there were no "short" dragoon bayonets, and that Panshin for Dragoon rifles is totally different beast, so not really relevant. Unfortunately I'm not very experienced with Finnish side of MNs and accessories and the one in OP looks like Finnish cut as Austrian has pointed end (not a "screwdriver" type). Apart of this I can't help with identification and verification. However I would recommend to post on GunBoards, there are gentlemen there that would be able to help, I am very sure.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information. Will follow up on GunBoards.
 
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