Mosin M1891's??

M

milsurpo

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Question for long term collectors out there. Are there any reasonably original condition Russian/ Soviet manufactured M1891's in Canada? Unless I'm mistaken, I believe I've seen one that would fit that description sold on EE in the last year or so. There are lots of Finned 91's, usually with almost no original parts (sometimes even not original receiver). There also appear to be a few fairly original Finn owned but not overly modified Remington and New England Westinghouse 91's. I've put a couple of WTB adds (as have others) for reasonably original Russian/ Soviet rifles but personally have never got any response. Are we wasting our time looking for these up here? Appreciate any thoughts.

milsurpo
 
They're definitely around, just got to keep your eye out. They most commonly show up at gun shows because people on the forum like to hoard them
 
I have never seen an original US made M91, they are overwhelmingly captures in Canada. Most are heavily Finned and in poor condition. The nice ones are around but collector's usually keep them. Not easy to find.
 
bp2626 said:
they are overwhelmingly captures in Canada. Most are heavily Finned and in poor condition.
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Yes, all the ones I've seen (and own) were Finn owned. However, there seems to have been some tendency for the Finns to leave the US Mosins somewhat intact- my NEW has original matching bolt//stock-buttplate while my Remington has original matching mag floorplate/stock-buttplate, etc. I'd be mighty happy to find Russian/ Soviet one with the same amount of originality. If there are a bunch residing in collections up here you'd think a few would routinely trickle out like everything else.

milsurpo
 
milsurpo said:
Yes, all the ones I've seen (and own) were Finn owned. However, there seems to have been some tendency for the Finns to leave the US Mosins somewhat intact- my NEW has original matching bolt//stock-buttplate while my Remington has original matching mag floorplate/stock-buttplate, etc. I'd be mighty happy to find Russian/ Soviet one with the same amount of originality. If there are a bunch residing in collections up here you'd think a few would routinely trickle out like everything else.

milsurpo
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They're usually owned by older Gentlemen because of the time in which they were imported. Gun shows are your best bet.
 
milsurpo said:
Yes, all the ones I've seen (and own) were Finn owned. However, there seems to have been some tendency for the Finns to leave the US Mosins somewhat intact- my NEW has original matching bolt//stock-buttplate while my Remington has original matching mag floorplate/stock-buttplate, etc. I'd be mighty happy to find Russian/ Soviet one with the same amount of originality. If there are a bunch residing in collections up here you'd think a few would routinely trickle out like everything else.
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I currently have both a Soviet M91 Infantry Rifle and M91 Dragoon. Both are mix-masters and Finnish Captures. For the Dragoon the bolt was renumbered (ground down then matched) to match the rifle but otherwise everything else is from somewhere else.

For the Soviet ones, it is extremely unlikely you will ever find a all matching one or even mostly matching one. The reality is that the ones available were either captured by the Finnish, who rebuilt virtually everything in case of another war, or a Spanish Civil War one which again they rebuilt/cannibalized rifles to keep them going. There is virtually no pristine Soviet examples because all the other M91s were either converted to 91/30 standards or given to allies who did things like convert them to M38 carbine sizes etc. The supply of Soviet examples is also next to non-existant as there are only two real sources for them. Those numbers would also be significantly lower than Imperial examples as Finland bought tons up in the 20s and 30s from people who had captured them from the Russians/Soviets and the supply they had on hand already. I once had a early M28/30 with a 1919 Tula receiver, the only way for them to get that receiver would have been through a intermediate who captured it from the Soviets in the Russian Civil War.

Personally I am just happy to have a example of a Soviet M91 Infantry and Dragoon, it took me five years to find both of them and both happened to be the first and last of each I have seen for sale in Canada.
 
Thanks for all the feedback, gentlemen. Sounds like a guy could wait quite a while to find what I want. Regarding shows, I go to all the local ones (including the very big Calgary spring show) and have yet to see anything other than Finn mixmasters (nothing wrong with those- I have a few). I guess patience is the key unless I want to go the importation route. All this makes me appreciate my NEW and Remington rifles more.

milsurpo
 
milsurpo said:
Thanks for all the feedback, gentlemen. Sounds like a guy could wait quite a while to find what I want. Regarding shows, I go to all the local ones (including the very big Calgary spring show) and have yet to see anything other than Finn mixmasters (nothing wrong with those- I have a few). I guess patience is the key unless I want to go the importation route. All this makes me appreciate my NEW and Remington rifles more.

milsurpo
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If you want a truly original NEW or Remington, go the importation route. Even if you want a really nice near-original Russian, go the importation route. They have lots of them down there compared to here. The Russian ones will still be Finned but with the random parts lottery you can find rifles with everything original other than minor components and the floor plate.
 
milsurpo said:
Question for long term collectors out there. Are there any reasonably original condition Russian/ Soviet manufactured M1891's in Canada? Unless I'm mistaken, I believe I've seen one that would fit that description sold on EE in the last year or so. There are lots of Finned 91's, usually with almost no original parts (sometimes even not original receiver). There also appear to be a few fairly original Finn owned but not overly modified Remington and New England Westinghouse 91's. I've put a couple of WTB adds (as have others) for reasonably original Russian/ Soviet rifles but personally have never got any response. Are we wasting our time looking for these up here? Appreciate any thoughts.

milsurpo
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Have you seen this one I posted while ago on GB? All matching, no Finn or other capture marks. I think it's early Soviet assembly from the old parts, some kind of sample or presentation rifle. I also have Remington, it's a beater and has couple of parts swapped, but all replacements are Remington too. Flaming bomb - US property mark tells me it was either part of Siberian expedition or training rifle in US.

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Horilka: I remember your Gunboards thread on that rifle. It caused quite a stir- beautiful and unusual. I also remember when you bought it here on the EE- I had just made a big purchase and felt I had spent my quota for the month- big mistake! regards,

Bill
 
Neat Sestroretsk...

(So it looks like tinypic was ding weird stuff with my link. I kept seeing a rifle, other people were seeing... something else. Reuploaded to imgur. If it gets replaced, it better be a kitten! Thanks for the screenshot Desert_Fox)

American made are easier to find in unaltered state... Check out all the arsenal marks...

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Kotkotofeich, you might want to take that top pic off of your post - it shatters the site rules.

Just sayin'

You did post a nice rifle btw.
 
Horilka, thats one nice m91! Im Glad it ended up in a good collection. I purchased it from a guy who was selling it for his dad, he was going to sporter it but bought a sks instead.
 
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