MOSIN NAGANT 7,62x54r LOAD INFO

84mmcarl-gustav

84mmcarl-gustav

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Hello,am starting to reload Mosin 7,62x54r,i will use 27.gr IMR 4227,bullet .312dia 185gr(Lyman cast bullet hanbook),
my question is do i need a filler,to cover empty space with that kind of powder,thank you:)
 
84mmcarl-gustav said:
Hello,am starting to reload Mosin 7,62x54r,i will use 27.gr IMR 4227,bullet .312dia 185gr(Lyman cast bullet hanbook),
my question is do i need a filler,to cover empty space with that kind of powder,thank you:)
Click to expand...

That's a MAX load you are planning to use - you should think about starting with 15 or 16 grs and work up to where you get good accuracy and no leading.

You don't need any filler.
 
I wouldn't use a filler unless the load book calls for it
The lyman book i have for some loads has a symbol next
To the powder type if a filler is recommended
Sometimes a filler can cause pressure spikes if it's not done correctly
I've heard of guys ringing chambers with it
In my personal experiences I've used it in cast 4570
Also cast 43 mauser and some gallery loads in 303 brit
Using a .314 dia pistol bullet and bullseye powder I found in an old
Lyman book
 
Good comments on filler here.

I have never found either H4227 nor IMR4227 to be accurate powders to use in large cases, but maybe that's just me. I like that burn rate and have gone to one of the 4198's as a substitute.
 
My experience is similar to Andy's where I've never found 4227 (H or IMR) loads to be that accurate in rifle cases. I use IMR4227 for .357 and .44 mag though. For lighter loads I often use Trail Boss or 10-15gr of a powder like 700X or Unique. I've also had luck with SR-7625 but its discontinued. I've never used a filler even in loads as light as 7-8gr in a .308 sized case or 10-12gr in a .300WM sized case. I do always use magnum primers but have been meaning to try some loads with magnum and normal and see if there are any differences (velocity, hang fires, how dirty the cases are, etc.).

For most cast loads that aren't meant to be kitten-fart loads I use H4198, SR-4759 (also discontinued), and sometimes H4895 if I want a moderate load (between cast and jacketed and know the barrel is in good enough condition to handle the velocity without lots of leading). These rifle powders do have a higher pressure threshold to burn properly though so can't do really light loads well (without a lot of dirt and crap left behind).
 
LUTNIT said:
My experience is similar to Andy's where I've never found 4227 (H or IMR) loads to be that accurate in rifle cases. I use IMR4227 for .357 and .44 mag though. For lighter loads I often use Trail Boss or 10-15gr of a powder like 700X or Unique. I've also had luck with SR-7625 but its discontinued. I've never used a filler even in loads as light as 7-8gr in a .308 sized case or 10-12gr in a .300WM sized case. I do always use magnum primers but have been meaning to try some loads with magnum and normal and see if there are any differences (velocity, hang fires, how dirty the cases are, etc.).

For most cast loads that aren't meant to be kitten-fart loads I use H4198, SR-4759 (also discontinued), and sometimes H4895 if I want a moderate load (between cast and jacketed and know the barrel is in good enough condition to handle the velocity without lots of leading). These rifle powders do have a higher pressure threshold to burn properly though so can't do really light loads well (without a lot of dirt and crap left behind).
Click to expand...

X2 - I could have written that, except that I have only used SR7625 very sparingly, and have a large stock of SR4759 - my favourite cast bullet powder. ;)
 
I've used polyester pillow filler as a filler for my .38-55 shooting based on experiences posted on single shot forums. With the lighter 18'ish grains of 4227 I used they do aid in getting better consistency. But that's on a single shot rifle with the ammo transported head down so the powder stays in place. The idea being that the light "fog" of the pillow filler holds the grains back against the primer more consistently.

On a Mosin I'd suggest that this isn't going to work all that well. The first shot taken will be OK but the recoil is going to totally scramble the powder within the light "fog" of the fibers of the packing of the rounds still in the magazine. And by the time you've shot the last one it'll be a full on "soup" of powder and fibers all mixed up.

I see that you're going to be using cast bullets. And that's interesting to me as well. But cast limits you to slower speeds. Using a gas check bullet can help but you don't list it as an option. If you do want to try it then take note that The Bullet Barn has two .313 size bullets that come with gas checks as well as a .309 size if you happen to have one of the tighter bore sizes.

Another option that I want to try for my 1894 in .30-30 is paper patching. Paper patching of cast bullets opens up a higher speed limit to where you can shoot at jacketed bullet speeds with no leading of the bore once you nail all the factors. You may want to play with this as well at some point.
 
What is the bore condition like? How long?

If not glass smooth, you will get leading in a big hurry. Gas check might delay but I think leading will be a problem.

If you have a 29" barrel, there may not be enough lube on the bullet to make the trip out the muzzle.

I think the practical use of the MN for a cast bullet shooter is limited.

Jerry
 
A lot of our Mosins take a LOT of cleaning to find out if they are shiny under what seems like a diamond hard layer of crud. I know that the two I've got were badly fouled with both copper and powder fouling that was caked on and took many sessions, two brand new bore brushes worn out until they are now good for 7mm caliber cleaning as well as a half can of that foaming action Wipe Out per barrel before the bores were coming out "clean enough". The patches being only slightly stained where when I started they would come out totally black or totally blue depending on what I was cleaning with at that point.

But it paid off as under the diamond like hard layer of crud I found a couple of shiny looking bores.

Oddly enough just shooting a few more milsurp rounds would cake them up again. As in a single paper pack of 20 rounds. I don't know for certain but I'm blaming it on the copper wash "plating" of the mild steel jackets coming off and sticking to the bore.

I'm planning on some reloads of my own using proper jacketed bullets with the hope that "proper" copper jackets wont' foul the bore to the same extent. When I can get back to that sort of shiny looking bore again I may even try the gas checked lead rounds pushed along at a more moderate speed as well.

Another thought would be to do some fire lapping with the abrasive coated lead bullets. That would also be an option for polishing up a bore that is sort of OK but not pristine.
 
I have shot thousands of cast bullets through 5 different MN over the years ( 3 Russian, 1 Finnish 39 and a Polish 44) Bullet was Lyman 314299 sized 314. Powder 4198. Good accuracy and never experienced leading.
 
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