Not knowing too much or anything about the Mosin Nagant bolt action.....except with "Jude Law"......in "Enemy at the Gate".....interested in hearing Mosin shooters opinion on the action as compared to a Mauser....Springfield..or to the mighty Lee Enfield..
Mosin Nagant bolt action VS Mauser bolt
- Thread starter x westie
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- Downtown Vancouver, BC
The Mosin's bolt is the most complicated to take down. In that aspect I find it is the weakest. This is an effective point to bring up, as ammo back then was corrosive, and a rusty bolt will affect safety as well as performance.
Also, the Mosin's bolt has more cycling issues (granted, they are amplified with unmatching bolts, but they still are more common than any other rifle), and as such the rifle is prone to poor cycling rates.
The gun works. It worked during the worst Russian winter in 100 years, since the tolerances are so low. Those same low tolerances make it a very undesireable gun to use, compared to a Mauser or Lee Enfield. I cannot comment on the Springfield as I've never even SEEN one in person, but it's similar to the Mauser in many aspects.
Also, the Mosin's bolt has more cycling issues (granted, they are amplified with unmatching bolts, but they still are more common than any other rifle), and as such the rifle is prone to poor cycling rates.
The gun works. It worked during the worst Russian winter in 100 years, since the tolerances are so low. Those same low tolerances make it a very undesireable gun to use, compared to a Mauser or Lee Enfield. I cannot comment on the Springfield as I've never even SEEN one in person, but it's similar to the Mauser in many aspects.
The Mosin Nagant 1891/30 rifles have straight bolt handles, while the Mauser KAR98K's and Lee Enfields have bent bolt handles. You'll find the bent bolt handles are faster to operate, especially if you have limited experience with bolt action milsurp rifles. After putting 100 rounds through my Mosin though, I can handle the straight bolt much faster than I did at first. If you're looking for quick firing, stick with a Mauser or Enfield. You should definately have a Mosin Nagant in your collection though as they are great rifles!
Fired all of the above, the Mosin is built like a Russian tank, you gotta smack it around to make it work ok, but it will outlast you, your children, their children, and their children ! I just can't foresee anything breaking on these things as every part of them seems to be so massively overbuilt it's ridiculous.
Edited to add: My bolt action milsurp "collection" consists of an M91/30 (Tula, 1934, re-arsenaled post war) and an M44 (polish, 1952, all matching and still has PLENTY of cosmo in every nook and crannie I bother to swipe a Qtip into). All others can wait until funds permit. Oh, and the caliber is more than enough to take down any critter found in North America if you wish to hunt with one. It has a fair kick to it though, especially the M44.
Edited to add: My bolt action milsurp "collection" consists of an M91/30 (Tula, 1934, re-arsenaled post war) and an M44 (polish, 1952, all matching and still has PLENTY of cosmo in every nook and crannie I bother to swipe a Qtip into). All others can wait until funds permit. Oh, and the caliber is more than enough to take down any critter found in North America if you wish to hunt with one. It has a fair kick to it though, especially the M44.
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With a Mosin a small rubber mallet is part of your range tool kit, but you can use ammo found buried in a farmers field in the Ukraine since WW2 and it will probably still work. 
In my other rifles...
#4 Enfields are very slick actions to work.
Pattern 14 Enfields are solid but clunky like other Mauser action types. I have tried.
Mind you my Swedish Mausers bolt is rather smooth to work.
In my other rifles...
#4 Enfields are very slick actions to work.
Pattern 14 Enfields are solid but clunky like other Mauser action types. I have tried.
Mind you my Swedish Mausers bolt is rather smooth to work.
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Pratice makes perfect with a mosin as with everything else. My bolt take down time is about 30 seconds using no tools. The bolt will almost never stick with brass ammo. I actually have an easier time working the mosin bolt than the mauser. Now if you want smooth & fast nothing beats an enfield.
Where does all this complicated bolt stuff come from? My mosin bolt dissassembles for general maintenance(without screwing out the firing pin and taking off extractor) in about 5 seconds and will take 20 to put it back together. Takes me longer to screw off an enfield bolt head.
Gotta take issue here.
I collect both Mosins AND Mausers and can speak with some authority on these if you can believe that?
First let's define ewhat we're talking about here? I assume you mean Mauser 98, as opposed to any other Mauser design. I'll also assume you mean the ubiquitous WW2 era Mosin M91/30 since the original poster was referencing enemy at the gates.
Neither the Mauser nor the Mosin requires any tools to disassemble the bolt. Both can be disassembled in the field with ease, though the Mauser cocking piece uses interrupted threads and can be quickly removed while the Mosin cocking piece has to be fully unsrewed from the firing pin. The Mosin, on the other hand, has looser tolerances that react better to dirt and debris and has fewer parts which is always a bonus for a combat rifle. (Mauser bolt has 9 parts, Mosin bolt has 7 parts). On a well maintained rifle, I find both bolts to work equally as well, though the mauser has the advantage of controlled round feeding in case you ever need to cycle the action while holding the rifle totally upside-down (VERY likely... NOT!).
The Mosin's bolt does NOT have more cycling issues. The reason this common misconception is around is because most of the surplus on the market today was manufactured in the 1960's or later in countries that never manufactured the Mosin, but did manufacture fully and semi-automatic small arms that fire the 54R cartridge. To save money they used lacquered steel cases causing sticky bolts in manually cycled rifles where the case isn't extracted "hot" like in a self-loader. If you use lacquered steel cases in a Mauser, you will get the same issues as in a Mosin. With brass or unlacquered steel cases, both rifles function fine. The mosin even feeds as well as a mauser (despite the rimmed round) due to the ingenious cartridge interruptor design which was WAY ahead of the British solution of relying on properly packed charger clips.
Also have to disagree with this claim. Aside from the K98k, the vast majority of Mauser 98's were made with straight botl handles. A straight bolt handle actually gives you more extraction leverage and is mechanically superior to e bent bolt handle. Germany went to a bent handle in WW2 (the WW1 Mausers all had straight handles except for the Kar98az) because it still worked adequately well and tended to catch less on the uniform and its attachments when slung across the back.
Don't believe me? Compare apples to apples. Go get a Yugo M24/47 and a Yugo M48A. they are identical rifles except for a few cosmetics and that the 24/47 has a straight bolt while the M48A has a bent bolt. See which one is easier and faster to cycle. My money is on the M24/47.
Of course, a straight handle doesn;t lend itself well to scope mounting...
My opinion?
I have been shooting these things for about 25 years now and have a lotof respect for the MN. Sure, it looks funny, but the lockup is good and tight and that's all that really matters for safety.
The MN will work in just about any conditions you can imagine. As for accuracy, their weak point is that long, slim forearm, which makes them difficult to bed. Once you get one bedded right, you can expect well under 2 MOA...... if you can hold the critter.
Handloads, of course, are mandatory if you are to get best accuracy out of one. My range buddy has a 1944 that shoots a 3x5-inch group every time we take it out. That's not bad at all for iron sights at 350 measured yards, generally in a switching wind.
I have been shooting these things for about 25 years now and have a lotof respect for the MN. Sure, it looks funny, but the lockup is good and tight and that's all that really matters for safety.
The MN will work in just about any conditions you can imagine. As for accuracy, their weak point is that long, slim forearm, which makes them difficult to bed. Once you get one bedded right, you can expect well under 2 MOA...... if you can hold the critter.
Handloads, of course, are mandatory if you are to get best accuracy out of one. My range buddy has a 1944 that shoots a 3x5-inch group every time we take it out. That's not bad at all for iron sights at 350 measured yards, generally in a switching wind.
MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Here's a slightly different take. Both actions do their job. I wear my preference on my sleeve in my CGN nickname but both are extremely well proven on the battlefield where it counts. If you can only own one (why just own one? ), the bigger difference may be in the cartridge itself and its ballistics, particularly if you are a hand loader.
A agree that the Enfield has the worst bolt design from a cleaning perspective. It was simply not meant to be taken down in the field. British training doctrine reflects this.
), the bigger difference may be in the cartridge itself and its ballistics, particularly if you are a hand loader.A agree that the Enfield has the worst bolt design from a cleaning perspective. It was simply not meant to be taken down in the field. British training doctrine reflects this.
Don't get me wrong, the Mauser is a superior piece of machined kit that fully reflects the Teutonic drive to out-engineer everyone before a shot is even fired. There is a reason most hunting rifles have Mauser ancestry.
To say it is a vastly superior battle rifle to the mosin, however, is simply put: erroneous. They each have their advantages and disadvantges and these service rifles' differences had nothing to do with the outcome of WW2.
An original (non-refurb, non-dinked with) Mauser 98 is a beautiful thing to behold, whereas the nicest mosin I ever saw still looked like a blunt tool. I wouldn't feel undergunned carrying either weapon on the eastern front in 1941.
To say it is a vastly superior battle rifle to the mosin, however, is simply put: erroneous. They each have their advantages and disadvantges and these service rifles' differences had nothing to do with the outcome of WW2.
An original (non-refurb, non-dinked with) Mauser 98 is a beautiful thing to behold, whereas the nicest mosin I ever saw still looked like a blunt tool. I wouldn't feel undergunned carrying either weapon on the eastern front in 1941.
PerversPépère
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- Shawinigan (Quebec)
I love shooting some of my Mosins; they are a lot more accurate than their looks indicate... I even find the straight bolt easier to use if you are benched over sand bags: first, get your head up, keep your right hand just where it was, put backward pressure on the buttstock so it stays firm at the shoulder; now, lay the back of your left hand across the bolt, slip the tip of your fingers under the bolthandle and lever it up.
You can manage surprising good leverage on the bolt that way without torquing the rifle.
Once the bolt is disengaged, flip it briskly to the rear (remember: head up!). Reverse the movement and then slap down on the bolt. Get your head back down on the buttstock. Faster done than said.
And you never changed your shooting grip.
PP.
You can manage surprising good leverage on the bolt that way without torquing the rifle.
Once the bolt is disengaged, flip it briskly to the rear (remember: head up!). Reverse the movement and then slap down on the bolt. Get your head back down on the buttstock. Faster done than said.
And you never changed your shooting grip.
PP.
I found my Mosin bolt very easy to take apart...almost too easy.
Youtube to the rescue!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liBzwj-K35U
Yeah. LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ck2v4iehVY&NR=1
MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
What, no Das Lied der Deutschen anthem to go along with the K98k? Disappointing!
Man, was he having issues with that Mosin. I must have been shooting a much better specimen Mosin or maybe better ammo. My RC K98k bolt is very slick and smooth, like a quality hunting rifle. The positive feed is cool but does require you to shove the round into the magazine for it to load properly.
ax 1941 (Erma)
Man, was he having issues with that Mosin. I must have been shooting a much better specimen Mosin or maybe better ammo. My RC K98k bolt is very slick and smooth, like a quality hunting rifle. The positive feed is cool but does require you to shove the round into the magazine for it to load properly.
ax 1941 (Erma)
