Mosin Nagant M38 for outdoor protection?



After over 40 years out West, hunting and fishing in the mountains where there are big brown furries that can eat you, I have had only about 6 bear encounters that I can think of. Five of those ended up without too much trouble but a fair bit of excitement and adrenalin highs. The sixth ended up with a Bear pelt full of lead and a real thrill. Most of the times, a Bear will avoid contact with humans and simply get out of the way and back into the bush. Many times, you will never know that it was there. And, I am basing this on having seen probably over 200 Bears during those 40 years. I have even been picking Huckleberries on one side of a patch with a Black Bear on the other side doing the same thing, with both of us keeping an eye on each other, but minding our own business.

However, in thick bush, especially along a river when you are fishing and there is noise from the water and visibility is impaired by the willows, then you MIGHT come across a Bear. It will probably be as surprised as you are. In a Gun Shop, someone once asked when the Bear Season starts, and my answer was "somewhere around 25 yards."

My "Woods Gun" has always been a 12 Guage pump shotgun, and old Mossberg 500 that someone had sawed the barrel of to a bit over 20 inches and that I bought a long time ago for $40 at a Gun Show. An extended Magazine was added and it holds six rounds in the tube (plus one in the chamber if I want to.) I modified the safety so that it was always "off" and the gun was carried hammer down on an empty chamber, two rounds of Number 6 bird shot for the first two rounds, then three slugs after that.

It was equipped with a sling, and carried MUZZLE DOWN over the left shoulder. In case it needed to be used, my left hand grabbed the forestock, lifted the shotgun upwards (upside down) then gave it a half twist as it came across in front of my body. With no safety to hang up, and an unloaded chamber WITH THE HAMMER DOWN IN THE FIRED POSITION, it was a very FAST AND SIMPLE act to simply pump the action and you were ready for Bear. The original wood stock was left on the gun --- it could have been shortened up by using a pistol grip BUT it would not have been so steady to aim with.

A bear has a bit of poor eyesight but movement attracts it. It does have an excellent sense of smell. My reasoning with the number 6 birdshot was that a couple of rounds of it would peel back it's face, give it something to think about, destroy it's vision and the blood and gunpowder would certainly confuse it's sense of smell. The only time I had to use it, that is exactly what happened, and the two follow up 12 guage slugs put an end to the situation. Why two slugs instead of three? Things happen very fast, and the third was for a very, very close shot if needed. Only a fool would empty the gun leaving himself without an emergency round.

Bear encounters of the worst kind happen extremely fast. So fast, in fact, that with a Mosin Nagant, you may not even have time to get the safety off and an aimed round fired. The 12 guage pump shotgun is a lot more effective and faster to use.
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I use an M44 for a general purpse truck gun, and a "better bring a gun" gun when out fishing, etc.

I think it's fine in that role.

Others have commented about a better safety. I'm not a fan of having a round in the chamber until I'm about to fire, and Mosins are fast a slick to handle; maybe 1-2 seconds to load a round, I'm not sure why anyone would carry one around cocked and locked. :(

And guys forget that the 7.62 x 54 R is basically a 30-06, and 30-06 class cartridges are no joke on bears at close range with proper ammunition.

I just cringe at the idea of some guys purposely having birdshot in a shotgun for bear defense... Never mind that in some areas anything other than slugs is illegal to shoot a bear with.
 
3 pages and nobody mentioned it. The best gun is the one you're well practiced with. A clunky rifle you can't get into action quickly is a club. Clubs are not good bear defense weapons. Don't carry a club. I wasn't happy with my rapid manipulation of an MN. I am slow with sight acquisition and never found a carry option that I liked. Empty chamber took me too long to refill, the safety is cumbersome under pressure. A powerful $150 beater rifle sounded good, I just couldn't get comfy enough behind it. If my 10/22 had yogi stopping power I'd be Chris Costa in a Magpul commercial. If my .223 XCR was the ticket I'd be set. Instead I'm carrying an 8.5" Grizzly with a BFG VCAS sling. Slung to my weak side, muzzle down so I can grab it with my strong hand and shoulder it faster than any firearm I have ever practiced with. I'm still reminded of how much nicer it is than previous guns Ive been unhappy carrying. My shoulders slant down making a shoulder sling very uncomfortable. It forces the sling to want to slide off my shoulder so I have to shrug that shoulder up and readjust every time I forget. By the end of hunting season I have cramps in my shoulder. A 2 point sling gives me the freedom and all day comfort that makes all the difference. I think Tampax has a similar catch phrase. At any rate, choose a gun that YOU are comfortable and well practiced with. Carry it how YOU see fit. Practice with it often. Make sure you can fully manipulate it quickly and efficiently, run it through its paces to catch any functional problems. Carry it so that it is readily accessible, can be in service very quickly and make sure you can hit your target in very short order, repeatably. Then stop worrying if you brought enough gun, worry if you brought enough sandwiches.
 
supernova said:
3 pages and nobody mentioned it. The best gun is the one you're well practiced with. A clunky rifle you can't get into action quickly is a club. Clubs are not good bear defense weapons. Don't carry a club. I wasn't happy with my rapid manipulation of an MN. I am slow with sight acquisition and never found a carry option that I liked. Empty chamber took me too long to refill, the safety is cumbersome under pressure. A powerful $150 beater rifle sounded good, I just couldn't get comfy enough behind it. If my 10/22 had yogi stopping power I'd be Chris Costa in a Magpul commercial. If my .223 XCR was the ticket I'd be set. Instead I'm carrying an 8.5" Grizzly with a BFG VCAS sling. Slung to my weak side, muzzle down so I can grab it with my strong hand and shoulder it faster than any firearm I have ever practiced with. I'm still reminded of how much nicer it is than previous guns Ive been unhappy carrying. My shoulders slant down making a shoulder sling very uncomfortable. It forces the sling to want to slide off my shoulder so I have to shrug that shoulder up and readjust every time I forget. By the end of hunting season I have cramps in my shoulder. A 2 point sling gives me the freedom and all day comfort that makes all the difference. I think Tampax has a similar catch phrase. At any rate, choose a gun that YOU are comfortable and well practiced with. Carry it how YOU see fit. Practice with it often. Make sure you can fully manipulate it quickly and efficiently, run it through its paces to catch any functional problems. Carry it so that it is readily accessible, can be in service very quickly and make sure you can hit your target in very short order, repeatably. Then stop worrying if you brought enough gun, worry if you brought enough sandwiches.
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:agree:
 
An M38 has lots of knock down power especially with 203gr soft points. Thats all I use for hunting with a Mosin.

If I want bear protection, I stick to my short 870 in 12guage. Its fast, light, easy to operate, and holds 4 plus 1.


As far as the SKS goes for bear protection, where I come from it will just pi$$ them off. Dumbest thing you can do is wound a bear when you meant to kill it.
 
I am sure plenty of Mosins have been used in Russia and plenty of bears have fallen there to them. There is no need to use the safety on a Mosin. Don't chamber a round unless you need to shoot like any other gun should be used. That said 203gr sp bullet out of a Mosin should do plenty of damage close range and is probably as capable as any other bolt gun to do the job. Personally I carry a Chiappa Trapper Skinner with 16" barrel in 44mag as my bear medicine. Can quickly pump multiple rounds of 300gr bullets very quickly and quite accurately. Is light weight and low recoil and short and handy to use. But just my choice. Others are welcome to theirs.
 
If all you have is the M38, then carry it. Nothing more useless than the gun you left at home.

I own a lot of guns, and the M38 would not be on the short list of guns to carry. I would choose a 12 ga loaded with only good penetrating slugs.

A bear encounter can start with you getting hit from behind, knocking you down. Your gun had better be compact and quick to get into action. I have a Rem 870 with a 14" and a 18" barrel. My choice would be that or my 20" SxS.
 
Well you cant close the mosin bolt when it has 5 in the mag without chambering the 1st round. So that's were the walking locked and loaded part came about.
To avoid that you would need to only insert 4 rounds and cycle the action in an emergency in order to chamber a round.
I'd rather have a rifle or shotgun that could have a round chambered and safety easily disengaged for split second deployment.
 
After firing my M38 for the first time a few days ago, I wouldn't be afraid of using it against a bear provided you're confident you can get it into action fast enough. It hits like a truck, especially with 203 grain soft point ammo, and contrary to everything I've read (and it may be because I am pretty tall at 6'4) it isn't all that punishing in the shoulder provided you hold it right. It was hitting a cliff-face right on point of aim and with some MAJOR authority every time if I did my part.

What fun little carbines, jeez, I want an M44 now just because!
 
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