Mosin Nagant vs K98 vs Lee Enfield

desporterizer said:
Too long for Imperialist maybe but real man handle too long tool every time we piss. Only idiot & nkvd lose bolt in three line rifle, men with brains bigger than flee keep bolt closed on round ready to fire. What is safety?
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I do not think that word means what you think it means.
 
The Mosin Nagant in my thoughts is the crudest/most simplistic of the three and possibly the most rugged. The bolts can be very stiff - especially war time models - and they are not always the most accurate of rifles. They also took a rimmed cartridge - the K98 did not - the Lee did - this can be an advantage or diasadvantage.

The K98 had one of the best actions ever devised and probably one of the most copied actions. The Japanese used a modified Mauser action and in Post WWII arsenal testing the Arisaka Mauser action (Pre-war production) beat all WWII bolt actions in their torture testing. The bent bolt was also an advantage and their snipers had better scope than the Soviets - but didn't really meet the needs of close urban combat like the PU scopes. The PE/PEM were a copy of Zeiss design.

The Lee Enfield - Probably the most accurate of the three - at least the No4T snipers are known as the most accurate WWII sniper rifle. Advantage of a bent bolt, and a detachable magazine. However the magazine lips were prone to deformation - which could cause problems with feeding.

The Enfield is probably the most complicated - lot's of screws and small parts/pins when compared to the Mosin and K98.

All have advantages and disadvantages. Just buy one of each.
 
Lee Enfield all the way......it's a no brainer. It didn't serve in 2 world wars and then some for no particular reason. The sights on the Enfield (peep) are so superior as well and what the heck I still carry one as a ranger so I may be just a tad biased!!!!
 
Well, several pages without pictures.

And inspired by another thread, so the Lee Enfield gets my vote for a Bolt action. The .303 did win an empire.

The 8mm ended up losing not 1 but 2 world wars and the M-N (although I feel not the same quality) was effective as it was produced rapidly in such vast quantities.

'41, '41, '42, '43, '44, '45 & '45

1-IMG_0332_zpsjt3hfysq.jpg
 
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bnzmauser said:
The Mosin Nagant in my thoughts is the crudest/most simplistic of the three and possibly the most rugged. The bolts can be very stiff - especially war time models - and they are not always the most accurate of rifles. They also took a rimmed cartridge - the K98 did not - the Lee did - this can be an advantage or diasadvantage.

The K98 had one of the best actions ever devised and probably one of the most copied actions. The Japanese used a modified Mauser action and in Post WWII arsenal testing the Arisaka Mauser action (Pre-war production) beat all WWII bolt actions in their torture testing. The bent bolt was also an advantage and their snipers had better scope than the Soviets - but didn't really meet the needs of close urban combat like the PU scopes. The PE/PEM were a copy of Zeiss design.

The Lee Enfield - Probably the most accurate of the three - at least the No4T snipers are known as the most accurate WWII sniper rifle. Advantage of a bent bolt, and a detachable magazine. However the magazine lips were prone to deformation - which could cause problems with feeding.

The Enfield is probably the most complicated - lot's of screws and small parts/pins when compared to the Mosin and K98.

All have advantages and disadvantages. Just buy one of each.
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Bravo!
Best answer yet. I agree with all these points.
 
desporterizer said:
Too long for Imperialist maybe but real man handle too long tool every time we piss. Only idiot & nkvd lose bolt in three line rifle, men with brains bigger than flea keep bolt closed on round ready to fire. What is safety?
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LMAFAO - Tovarich, I toast to your long tool and self handling skills LOL
 
CODFan said:
Well, several pages without pictures.

And inspired by another thread, so the Lee Enfield gets my vote for a Bolt action. The .303 did win an empire.

The 8mm ended up losing not 1 but 2 world wars and the M-N (although I feel not the same quality) was effective as it was produced rapidly in such vast quantities.
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If anything won the 2nd world war it was 7.62x54R and the British Empire was established well before the .303 came into service. But in reality it was really about 20 million Soviet soldiers and citizens that made the biggest contribution IMO.
 
CODFan said:
Agreed - I think the same can be said for all who made the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom.
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People win wars... Not equipment.

CODFan said:
The 8mm ended up losing not 1 but 2 world wars
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The British used the Besa machine gun (Czech ZB-53) chambered in 8x57 Mauser during WWII. So by your connotation, 8x57 Mauser won WWII alongside the .303.

bnzmauser said:
The Mosin Nagant in my thoughts is the crudest/most simplistic of the three and possibly the most rugged. The bolts can be very stiff - especially war time models - and they are not always the most accurate of rifles. They also took a rimmed cartridge - the K98 did not - the Lee did - this can be an advantage or diasadvantage.

The K98 had one of the best actions ever devised and probably one of the most copied actions. The Japanese used a modified Mauser action and in Post WWII arsenal testing the Arisaka Mauser action (Pre-war production) beat all WWII bolt actions in their torture testing. The bent bolt was also an advantage and their snipers had better scope than the Soviets - but didn't really meet the needs of close urban combat like the PU scopes. The PE/PEM were a copy of Zeiss design.

The Lee Enfield - Probably the most accurate of the three - at least the No4T snipers are known as the most accurate WWII sniper rifle. Advantage of a bent bolt, and a detachable magazine. However the magazine lips were prone to deformation - which could cause problems with feeding.

The Enfield is probably the most complicated - lot's of screws and small parts/pins when compared to the Mosin and K98.

All have advantages and disadvantages. Just buy one of each.
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I agree with everything you said, the Lee Enfield was the best WW2 sniper rifle. But, the Lee Enfield isn't the most accurate of the three.

The Mauser is the most accurate action but, what failed K98 snipers was wehrmacht policies. The Germans didn't recognizance snipers as tactically essential. The requirements for a sniper rifle were very loose to say the least. At first they took GEW98s that were reworked into the K98 pattern and chose the ones with the best bore condition to be snipers. In 1939 they "tightened" the requirements to include accuracy of 5 shot group of 12cm (4-3/4") at 100m... which isn't that good when you compare it to the British requirement of a 7 shot group inside 5" at 200 yards, and the Russian requirement to shoot 10 shots into 3.5 cm (1.38") at 100m.

K98 - required to shoot 4.75 MOA
No.4 - required to shoot 2.5 MOA
M-N -required to shoot 1.5 MOA

Damn, now I have a hankering for a PU sniper... Why didn't I buy one when they were everywhere for $500 :(
 
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BeaverMeat said:
People win wars... Not equipment.



The British used the Besa machine gun (Czech ZB-53) chambered in 8x57 Mauser during WWII. So by your connotation, 8x57 Mauser won WWII alongside the .303.



I agree with everything you said, the Lee Enfield was the best WW2 sniper rifle. But, the Lee Enfield isn't the most accurate of the three.

The Mauser is the most accurate action but, what failed K98 snipers was wehrmacht policies. The Germans didn't recognizance snipers as tactically essential. The requirements for a sniper rifle were very loose to say the least. At first they took GEW98s that were reworked into the K98 pattern and chose the ones with the best bore condition to be snipers. In 1939 they "tightened" the requirements to include accuracy of 5 shot group of 12cm (4-3/4") at 100m... which isn't that good when you compare it to the British requirement of a 7 shot group inside 5" at 200 yards, and the Russian requirement to shoot 10 shots into 3.5 cm (1.38") at 100m.

K98 - required to shoot 4.75 MOA
No.4 - required to shoot 2.5 MOA
M-N -required to shoot 1.5 MOA

Damn, now I have a hankering for a PU sniper... Why didn't I buy one when they were everywhere for $500 :(
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I bought one for $800 and its some of the best money I spent now I just need a uniform so I can pretend to be Vassili Zaitsev lol
 
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Yeah I bought my PU sniper a couple of years ago. Figured what the hell.... when is the next time WWII sniper rifles are gonna be $600? NEVER I figured!

Russia showed the world what snipers could do in the rubble of Stalingrad. Demoralize and defeat the most professional and innovative army in the world!
 
MauserMike said:
Yeah I bought my PU sniper a couple of years ago. Figured what the hell.... when is the next time WWII sniper rifles are gonna be $600? NEVER I figured!

Russia showed the world what snipers could do in the rubble of Stalingrad. Demoralize and defeat the most professional and innovative army in the world!
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without Stalingrad we would all be speaking German right now
 
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