what advantages, if any does a mosin nagant have over a Lee Enfield,other than just preference?They seem ballistically similar,what about workmanship, accuracy,as well as availabilty,price and variety of ammunition?[someone has a nice Polish mosin nagant for sale on EE for $100]
mosin nagant vs lee enfield
- Thread starter ratherbefishin
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Depends upon what you're looking for and want to do...
If just plinking I'd say go for the MN as you can purchase cheap surplus ammo ($199 or abouts for 1200 rds corossive). If you want to hunt you can do with both though it might be harder to find hunting ammo in 7.62x54R and your choices would probably be limited in terms of bullet selection and weight.
I would expect the LE to be better made, though you can certainly find well made, refurbished MN on the market especially Finnish ones but they would probably cost more.
Also the LE hold more rounds in the mag - ten to five for the MN but if hunting you are usually restricted to 5 rds in most provinces.
If just plinking I'd say go for the MN as you can purchase cheap surplus ammo ($199 or abouts for 1200 rds corossive). If you want to hunt you can do with both though it might be harder to find hunting ammo in 7.62x54R and your choices would probably be limited in terms of bullet selection and weight.
I would expect the LE to be better made, though you can certainly find well made, refurbished MN on the market especially Finnish ones but they would probably cost more.
Also the LE hold more rounds in the mag - ten to five for the MN but if hunting you are usually restricted to 5 rds in most provinces.
Northman999
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As there are so many excellent condition refurbed Mosins around right now, they are inexpensive, and I'd say a much better deal than LE's. You can buy a mosin that appears as new for less than $200 from dealers all day long. An LE in that condition is going to cost you four times that much, if you can find it. And they you probably won't want to take it out and really use it anyways. The 7.62x54R cartridge is more powerful than the 303 brit, but not so much as to make a big difference. The 303 british ammo is much more common, but 7.62x54R soft point hunting ammo is definitely getting more common than it was. They are both solid workhorses, well proven over decades of hard use. The LE has ten round mags, which is nice, but those same mags can be unreliable as well. The mosin is going to be more reliable, overall.
I have never shot a Mossin Nagant, but I understand they have reputation for kicking like mule-but whether that is any more than the Lee Enfield,in a comparable load, I don't know.Possably one factor is 303 ammunition is less common in the US than it is here,I was most surprised to read of someonein the US saying 303 ammunition was hard to find[understandably, as the 303 was a British Commonwealth weapon,whereas the 30-06 was US]I do like the Parker Hale Lee enfield conversions for a hunting rifle-they have excellent workmanship
For plinking, go with the mosin. The guns are between 150-250 usually and the ammo is about 200-350 for 800 rounds if you can find it. Enfields are more accurate and better made, but will cost alot more for the rifle and ammo.
I have fired both and still own only Mosins .... nuff said.
They are built to work in the cold and do. That half second difference between them while working the bolt ain't gonna mean much if you can't get the thing closed at all ....
They are built to work in the cold and do. That half second difference between them while working the bolt ain't gonna mean much if you can't get the thing closed at all ....
1. The Lee Enfield has a “EASY” to use safety that doesn’t allow any Deer, Moose or Tyrannosaurus Rex’s to get away while your frozen fingers fiddle with a Mosin safety.
2. The No.4 Enfield has peep or aperture sights which makes it twice as accurate.
3. A 60 year old person with chronological gifted eyesight can “actually” see the No.4 Enfield’s sights.
4. The Lee Enfield trigger can be adjusted to be slicker than snot on a door knob.
5. Only Commie Pinko Perverts prefer the Mosin over the British and Commonwealth Lee Enfield rifle.
6. “Longbranch” has a more male virility sounding name than “Mosin Nagant” which sounds more like a European social disease contracted in a bordello.
7. If you need to ask this question in a Canadian gun forum you should immigrate to Russia and eat rotten boiled cabbage every day.
8. And if you buy a Mosin you will be kicked out of Possum Lodge and have to give up duck tape for the rest of your life.
2. The No.4 Enfield has peep or aperture sights which makes it twice as accurate.
3. A 60 year old person with chronological gifted eyesight can “actually” see the No.4 Enfield’s sights.
4. The Lee Enfield trigger can be adjusted to be slicker than snot on a door knob.
5. Only Commie Pinko Perverts prefer the Mosin over the British and Commonwealth Lee Enfield rifle.
6. “Longbranch” has a more male virility sounding name than “Mosin Nagant” which sounds more like a European social disease contracted in a bordello.
7. If you need to ask this question in a Canadian gun forum you should immigrate to Russia and eat rotten boiled cabbage every day.
8. And if you buy a Mosin you will be kicked out of Possum Lodge and have to give up duck tape for the rest of your life.
again it comes back to what you want it for...
as myself and others have said if its just plinking go for the MN - cheap ammo!
...might not be plentiful now but that will change, there are too many MNs and SVTs here for the dealers not to bring in surplus 7.62x54R. If you want to hunt there is ammo available: Privi Partizan makes 150 and 180g SP for hunting - its just finding it that maybe problematic. You can always reload - Trade Ex has components
Accuracy - I have no problem hitting a 2'x2' plate at 200m with the open sights from a bench with my crappy Russian M91/30 - but it does kick like a mule as you put it. If that's a problem replace the steel butt plate with a Limbsaver or Decelerator pad.
But as bigedp51 said you can work the trigger on a LE to make it better - for a MN you get what you've got - only ones that I know with good triggers are the Finn MNs and those cost more.
If you're going to hunt then I'd say the LE has the advantage - bigedp51 mention the peep sight already plus if you're going to scope a MN then its probably better to find a sporterized LE that already has a scope.
Just remember MNs are heavy and long, really long: 48 1/2" - not a problem on the range but when hunting... If you want to hunt with a MN get yourself a M38 or M44. Milsurp LEs are 1/2 to a pound lighter and 4" or so shorter.
Plus .303 British hunting ammo while not exactly cheap anymore is at least usually available everywhere here. Surplus - that's another matter, I have seen any surplus .303 for years.
as myself and others have said if its just plinking go for the MN - cheap ammo!
...might not be plentiful now but that will change, there are too many MNs and SVTs here for the dealers not to bring in surplus 7.62x54R. If you want to hunt there is ammo available: Privi Partizan makes 150 and 180g SP for hunting - its just finding it that maybe problematic. You can always reload - Trade Ex has components
Accuracy - I have no problem hitting a 2'x2' plate at 200m with the open sights from a bench with my crappy Russian M91/30 - but it does kick like a mule as you put it. If that's a problem replace the steel butt plate with a Limbsaver or Decelerator pad.
But as bigedp51 said you can work the trigger on a LE to make it better - for a MN you get what you've got - only ones that I know with good triggers are the Finn MNs and those cost more.
If you're going to hunt then I'd say the LE has the advantage - bigedp51 mention the peep sight already plus if you're going to scope a MN then its probably better to find a sporterized LE that already has a scope.
Just remember MNs are heavy and long, really long: 48 1/2" - not a problem on the range but when hunting... If you want to hunt with a MN get yourself a M38 or M44. Milsurp LEs are 1/2 to a pound lighter and 4" or so shorter.
Plus .303 British hunting ammo while not exactly cheap anymore is at least usually available everywhere here. Surplus - that's another matter, I have seen any surplus .303 for years.
cost makes mosin nagant a fun gun. You can buy the rifle or the carbine. There used to be lots of shells around and could be again. Buy the carbine for effect....big flash at night...be blind for a moment and take another shot. They come with accessories and you can play russian revolution in the bush....same trees as russia! Enfields are great also, but the cost takes the fun out of playing colonial.
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where?
My preference would be Mosin. IMHO. I used to own Enfields and ended up selling them (10 rd mags are junk and I hate peep sights). I own 1/2 dozen Mosins and purchased another one yesterday.
If someone ask me what would I choose for combat, Mosin or Enfield, the answer is definitely Mosin. (Yes, I'm Russian)
I can easily hit a steel gong at 200 yards standing with my M91 using just iron sight (witnessed by St. John's Rod and Gun Club members)
ONCE AGAIN IT'S ALL IMHO
If someone ask me what would I choose for combat, Mosin or Enfield, the answer is definitely Mosin. (Yes, I'm Russian
) I can easily hit a steel gong at 200 yards standing with my M91 using just iron sight (witnessed by St. John's Rod and Gun Club members)
ONCE AGAIN IT'S ALL IMHO
I couldn't decide, so...
The MN will be easier to get surplus plinking ammo for but harder to get boxer primed brass for if you intend to reload- at least, that's been my experience. Bell makes hunting ammo for the MN, if your dealer stocks it, but Wally World and C-Tire will usually have .303 Brit on hand.
Both pack a neat little wallop for my arthritic bones but are fun to shoot. Stock configuration is a metal plate on the butt of the MN and my Jungle Carbine has what is akin to a flattened beaver's tail for a butt pad!
Don't let the price fool you - some of those surplus MN's are excellent.
The MN will be easier to get surplus plinking ammo for but harder to get boxer primed brass for if you intend to reload- at least, that's been my experience. Bell makes hunting ammo for the MN, if your dealer stocks it, but Wally World and C-Tire will usually have .303 Brit on hand.
Both pack a neat little wallop for my arthritic bones but are fun to shoot. Stock configuration is a metal plate on the butt of the MN and my Jungle Carbine has what is akin to a flattened beaver's tail for a butt pad!
Don't let the price fool you - some of those surplus MN's are excellent.
I personally own 6 Mosins, an M1891, 2 91/30s, an M38, M44 and 91/30 PU. I also own a1942 Longbranch No4. I will take ANY of my mosins any day over the Enfield. Personally, I can work a Mosin bolt faster, load via stripper clips faster, take up a sight picture a lot quicker, and I find I am more accurate with any of my Mosins (handloads). The Enfield isnt a bad rifle, but can be plagued with many finicky problems I find. Such things as the shrinkage of the stock and bedding of the stock. I found with my No4 if these things arent perfect, you wont hit anything. Whereas Mosins will take a beating, and still mainting a very respectable level of accuracy. They are a very robust rifle, capable of much abuse before worry.
Ammo - The 7.62x54R is a great cartridge all round, my personal favourite. With reloads you can start as low as 125gr and move up to 200gr with no issues. I have found a 150gr .312 bullet with 48 gr of RL15 will produce outstanding results accuracy wise. The 54R generates a lot of power and can be used quite easily past 500m +. The .303 is also another combat proven round but I find the 7.62x54r to be more accurate (Im going to get flamed for this!) I have fired quite a few Enfields, I just like the 54R better. Both will cost about the same to reload, and surplus for both rifles is currently few and far between. Factory ammo is about the same price wise, but with the .303 being more common.
Sights - I find the iron sights on the Mosins a lot better then the Enfields. The Mosins ''point' a lot easier then the Enfields, and line up a lot faster then the No4 post and aperature. I find that lining up the Enfields sights in low light can be a pain. Again your experiences will vary.
Workmanship - WW2 era Mosins will be roughly finished, but will function reliably with no issues. The pre and post war Mosins have very nice finishes and are very smooth.The No4 rifles have nicer blueing, typically nicer stocks, better triggers and smoother metal. However, to me my Mosins feel "tougher", I find my No4 stock scratches really easy, while my Mosin stock dosnt. The Enfield is very 'refined', and is a very slick rifle, I just find the Mosin more of a 'working' rifle.
Bolt - Everybody seems to love the No4 bolt and hate the Mosins awkward stubby bolt. I find the No4 to have a nice bolt, but the spring tension needed to close the bolt is annoying to me. With the Mosin, using the palm of your hand, the bolt will open and close fairly easily. I find that I can work a Mosin much faster then any Enfield bolt, and more reliable (I have had a few Enfields that wont chamber the last round in the mag, never a problem with any Mosin).
Accuracy - Mosins and Enfields both have the potential for very good accuracy. One thing I find is most people who complain about "junk accuracy" out of a Mosin are using surplus ammo. As much as I love surplus ammo, it isnt as accurate as reloads or factory stuff, and rightfully so, its mass produced military grade stuff. With handloads I have been able to do a HAIR under 1inch at 100m with 2 of my Mosins, with the rest in the 2ish inch area. With surplus this can EASILY double, if not triple. With the Enfields, since most people are firing newer ammo, or factory, they find that they are more accurate, and rightfully so they will be. With old surplus you can expect the same results as the Mosins. Of course bore condition is everything, the best ammo and the worst bore will produce poor results, as will the best bore and worst ammo!
Overall I find the Mosins a better choice. The Enfield has its advantages such as a 10rd mag, nicer looks (if that matters to you), easy availability of ammo and a nicer trigger/overall feel. However, the Mosins I feel are underappreciated and are a very capable rifle, and with the prices what they are, I feel a MUCH better deal then any Enfield!
Oh, and yes, I AM a Canadian! not a Russian
Ammo - The 7.62x54R is a great cartridge all round, my personal favourite. With reloads you can start as low as 125gr and move up to 200gr with no issues. I have found a 150gr .312 bullet with 48 gr of RL15 will produce outstanding results accuracy wise. The 54R generates a lot of power and can be used quite easily past 500m +. The .303 is also another combat proven round but I find the 7.62x54r to be more accurate (Im going to get flamed for this!) I have fired quite a few Enfields, I just like the 54R better. Both will cost about the same to reload, and surplus for both rifles is currently few and far between. Factory ammo is about the same price wise, but with the .303 being more common.
Sights - I find the iron sights on the Mosins a lot better then the Enfields. The Mosins ''point' a lot easier then the Enfields, and line up a lot faster then the No4 post and aperature. I find that lining up the Enfields sights in low light can be a pain. Again your experiences will vary.
Workmanship - WW2 era Mosins will be roughly finished, but will function reliably with no issues. The pre and post war Mosins have very nice finishes and are very smooth.The No4 rifles have nicer blueing, typically nicer stocks, better triggers and smoother metal. However, to me my Mosins feel "tougher", I find my No4 stock scratches really easy, while my Mosin stock dosnt. The Enfield is very 'refined', and is a very slick rifle, I just find the Mosin more of a 'working' rifle.
Bolt - Everybody seems to love the No4 bolt and hate the Mosins awkward stubby bolt. I find the No4 to have a nice bolt, but the spring tension needed to close the bolt is annoying to me. With the Mosin, using the palm of your hand, the bolt will open and close fairly easily. I find that I can work a Mosin much faster then any Enfield bolt, and more reliable (I have had a few Enfields that wont chamber the last round in the mag, never a problem with any Mosin).
Accuracy - Mosins and Enfields both have the potential for very good accuracy. One thing I find is most people who complain about "junk accuracy" out of a Mosin are using surplus ammo. As much as I love surplus ammo, it isnt as accurate as reloads or factory stuff, and rightfully so, its mass produced military grade stuff. With handloads I have been able to do a HAIR under 1inch at 100m with 2 of my Mosins, with the rest in the 2ish inch area. With surplus this can EASILY double, if not triple. With the Enfields, since most people are firing newer ammo, or factory, they find that they are more accurate, and rightfully so they will be. With old surplus you can expect the same results as the Mosins. Of course bore condition is everything, the best ammo and the worst bore will produce poor results, as will the best bore and worst ammo!
Overall I find the Mosins a better choice. The Enfield has its advantages such as a 10rd mag, nicer looks (if that matters to you), easy availability of ammo and a nicer trigger/overall feel. However, the Mosins I feel are underappreciated and are a very capable rifle, and with the prices what they are, I feel a MUCH better deal then any Enfield!
Oh, and yes, I AM a Canadian! not a Russian
Amen Brother.
The Mosin is a rough, sloppy rifle. It was built for and built by uneducated peasants (that's not a slight to the Russians, its just the facts of a wartime army/economy).
The Lee Enfield has a #### on close bolt that is so smooth it makes me cry. Tears of joy of course.
I reload 303 British and 7.62x54R (to name a few) and if I have the choice, I always reload for my No.1 Mk.3, No.4 Mk 1* and No.5 Mk 1 above anything else.
....and IMHO, while the Mosin is sloppy and rough(the WWII ones anyway), but it is more reliable than the L-E.
And in a combat I wouldn't care about silky smooth action or metal finish etc., what matters is that the rifle goes bang and hits the target every time I squeeze the trigger....
And in a combat I wouldn't care about silky smooth action or metal finish etc., what matters is that the rifle goes bang and hits the target every time I squeeze the trigger....
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Ammunition availability(at least here anyways) is becoming more scarce for the Moisin, personally, I prefer shooting my .303, it just feels like a better built firearm.
Now don't get me wrong, the Moisin has been tried,tested and trued, but it just feels cheap, I enjoy shooting it, but if I were forced to make a choice between the two, I wouldn't even hesitate to choose the Lee Enfield. But that's just my 2cents.
Now don't get me wrong, the Moisin has been tried,tested and trued, but it just feels cheap, I enjoy shooting it, but if I were forced to make a choice between the two, I wouldn't even hesitate to choose the Lee Enfield. But that's just my 2cents.
Some examples of the Wartime Russians can be pretty rough in comparison to a Longbranch or British No4Mk1 of the same vintage; if you were to compare the same No4Mk1's to say a Finnish M39 or a Post War Polish M44 you might be 'singing a different song'...
