mosin nagant vs lee enfield

[RobSmith]

Funny how my Tula 91/30 (circa 1934) has wood everywhere except in the small space between the rear sight and the chamber, so I don't really know what you mean there. Mind you I simply can't fathom how someone would grab a rifle by the rear sight, which is about the only way I can think of that someone <may> get burned after a lot of firing, and if you grab ANY of my rifles my the sights, well, you get the idea.

At least the bolt CAN be completely taken appart in the field if need be, can't say as much about an Enfield bolt ....

1936 Tula hex receiver, force-matched bolt it was.

No handguards between the receiver and the front of the backsight, so keep your fingers in the grooves Ivan!

And that take-it-apart-yourself bolt? Good grief, the machining on that thing! The Germans didn't have a monoply on wasted efforts. The design is just plain weird; trying to get around patents maybe?

The bright finish all over the bolt is a great idea too if you like shiny things and oiling them in the bottom of a trench.

To each their own!

 

[ArtyMan]

. Mind you I simply can't fathom how someone would grab a rifle by the rear sight, which is about the only way I can think of that someone <may> get burned after a lot of firing, and if you grab ANY of my rifles my the sights, well, you get the idea.QUOTE]

All REAL men grab the rifles only by the sights, c'mon now, dosnt know that!

in all honesty good point!

 

[David_K]

My M44 kicks like an angry mule but my friend's 91/30 has barely any kick whatsoever. I could shoot the 91/30 one handed but the M44 bruises my shoulder(I still like it ;D).

 

[RRCo.]

Funny how my Tula 91/30 (circa 1934) has wood everywhere except in the small space between the rear sight and the chamber, so I don't really know what you mean there. Mind you I simply can't fathom how someone would grab a rifle by the rear sight, which is about the only way I can think of that someone <may> get burned after a lot of firing, and if you grab ANY of my rifles my the sights, well, you get the idea.

At least the bolt CAN be completely taken appart in the field if need be, can't say as much about an Enfield bolt ....

Then I guess it's the same as the one I handled - whodah thunk eh?!

Problem is, no wood over the chamber area or barrel until you get north of the backsight means when you grab the rifle in one hand at the point of balance, (carrying "at the trail", as it's called) your palm and thumb get very warm very quickly, that is if you've been firing off a few dozen rounds or more. I guess it's OK when it's -30 and your're wearing gloves, but that's the reason the SMLE has those little strips of wood even along the sides of the backsight, and a rear handguard that goes right to the edge of the barrel ring on the receiver and covers the point of balance. A lesson they learned in the Boer War I'm guessing.

Tommy doesn't need to take his bolt apart in the field, why would Ivan?

 

[tula]

if I owned a Lee Enfield (finicky british crowbars!! reason I pretty much gave the two I had away) I'd trade it on a Mosin any day ..... best shooting milsurp battle rifle I've ever used and easy to strip down and service and tough, how many milsurp rifles out there can you haul through the rain, snow, mud, and sand, drop in a mud puddle (more mud then water) pick up squeeze the trigger and off she go's like nothings happened....forgive me im pro Mosin and proud of it its like a religion

 

[J996]

how many milsurp rifles out there can you haul through the rain, snow, mud, and sand, drop in a mud puddle (more mud then water) pick up squeeze the trigger and off she go's like nothings happened.

M98. Das beste Gewehr aller Welt!!:

 

[tula]

shhhh dont say that to loud

 

[RRCo.]

if I owned a Lee Enfield (finicky british crowbars!! reason I pretty much gave the two I had away) I'd trade it on a Mosin any day ..... best shooting milsurp battle rifle I've ever used and easy to strip down and service and tough, how many milsurp rifles out there can you haul through the rain, snow, mud, and sand, drop in a mud puddle (more mud then water) pick up squeeze the trigger and off she go's like nothings happened....forgive me im pro Mosin and proud of it its like a religion

Blind faith you mean? Better than none at all I guess, if you mean in your weapons.

Don't get me wrong, they're interesting, like any rifle that has seen so much history, but to choose as a battle rifle against an SMLE or No4? You're going to spend twice as much time fiddling with your ammo pouches or knocking dirt off your clips as the guy with the Lee Enfield. That's a lot of dead troops in a war or two.

The SMLE in particular has been through every climate there is, and plenty of testing like the sand cabinet at Enfield before it ever got to the troops. Do you think the Lee Enfield hasn't been through the mud? Check the photos of France in WWI.

As for handiness, feel, balance and point, there's no competition IMO. The SMLE and No4 can't be beaten for that by any service rifle of that period that I've heard of.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

Mauser 98? Been there, done that, polish my shoes with the t-shirt!

 

[RobSmith]

I beg to differ.

In a wartime situation .... Would you rather have a weapon that has been designed to work in all climates, and can be taken down to the last part with the issue cleaning kit should something not "feel right" or a weapon in which as a soldier you are forbidden to remove such thing as the bolt head ???

Let's forget about the locking mechanism (which the Mosin is STILL VASTLY SUPERIOR, despite being an "older" design) .....

I rest my case.

Blind faith you mean? Better than none at all I guess, if you mean in your weapons.

Don't get me wrong, they're interesting, like any rifle that has seen so much history, but to choose as a battle rifle against an SMLE or No4? You're going to spend twice as much time fiddling with your ammo pouches or knocking dirt off your clips as the guy with the Lee Enfield. That's a lot of dead troops in a war or two.

The SMLE in particular has been through every climate there is, and plenty of testing like the sand cabinet at Enfield before it ever got to the troops. Do you think the Lee Enfield hasn't been through the mud? Check the photos of France in WWI.

As for handiness, feel, balance and point, there's no competition IMO. The SMLE and No4 can't be beaten for that by any service rifle of that period that I've heard of.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

 

[tula]

ah well each to his own, I'll still collect nothing but Mosins till they come out my ears 260 veriations recorded and a few hundered not recorded yet.

 

[tula]

ahh another with fine tasts in rifles glad to hear from a fellow mosin man.

 

[RRCo.]

I beg to differ.

In a wartime situation .... Would you rather have a weapon that has been designed to work in all climates, and can be taken down to the last part with the issue cleaning kit should something not "feel right" or a weapon in which as a soldier you are forbidden to remove such thing as the bolt head ???

Let's forget about the locking mechanism (which the Mosin is STILL VASTLY SUPERIOR, despite being an "older" design) .....

I rest my case.

If it's not too late, why do think the locking mechanism of the MN is "vastly superior"??

The MN was designed to work in Russia, the Lee Enfield was designed to work in an empire that included every kind of terrain in the world; about 25% of the earth's surface around 1900.

I think you'll find Russian/Soviet soldiers weren't encouraged take their bolts apart either. But if they had to, I can tell you which one is FAR simpler and easier and it's not the MN. Unless your firing pin breaks there is no reason to take the bolt head off a Lee Enfield anyway, and if it was immersed in water for a while all you'd do is unscrew the bolt head (Simple bolt thread not MN Rubic's Cube design) and shake the water out, dry by the fire, whatever. The recesses for the firing pin removal tool allow fluids to flow past the collar on the firing pin that retains the spring.

Take an oily MN bolt and blow sand over it and then do the same to an oily Lee Enfield bolt and then start cleaning. The Lee bolt will be clean long before the MN.

The MN bolt head recesses are a PITA to clean out if sand or mud gets in them, as it obviously will if you're fighting in sandy or wet terrain. The rear locking lugs of the Lee are far more accessible and much easier to clean. Also much less likely to foul as dirt is pushed out of them by the action of the bolt lugs!

 

[desporterizer]

I could have my mosins (all of them) apart & back together again before completing the task on my lone smle. The bolt comes apart in under 20 seconds. The enfield has all kinds of extra screws & springs to loose. There is nothing to choose between the mosin charger & the enfields, they both suck compared to the mauser system.

 

[RobSmith]

I like to think of it this way ....

When there's 50 or so thousands of pounds of pressure going off when you pull the trigger, would you rather have these two rather massively overbuilt locking lugs standing between your face and permanent disfigurement, or that flimsy little bolt head (assuming that it was still within specs to begin with) ?

I will grant you that when things are seriously dirty, the MN bolt may require a slap or 2 to get her closed. Once she is closed however, you can rest assured that there is one hellovalot fo steel to go thru before anything gets near your face, a luxury the Lee-Enfield design does not have.

At least the Russian/Soviet soldier had the option of taking their bolt appart if need be, a luxury that British/Commonwealth soldiers did not have.

In my experience (yes I'm one of those guys that clean their rifle once a year, maybe, if I feel like it, even if I've been shooting corrosive ammo) the MN's locking lugs tend to push out any crap that got in there out as they function and onto the bolt handle, just as they were designed to do.

The Enfield on the other hand, tends to not get rid of crap, keep it between the bolt head and the cartridge, and eventually extrude the crap in question down the hole where the firing pin is, and on to the spring that you as an individual soldier can't take appart ...

If my MN bolt gets gritty, I just whip out my issue cleaning kit, take the thing appart, clean it, then reassemble, it even comes with a crude but effective firing pin protrusion guage.

If it's not too late, why do think the locking mechanism of the MN is "vastly superior"??

The MN was designed to work in Russia, the Lee Enfield was designed to work in an empire that included every kind of terrain in the world; about 25% of the earth's surface around 1900.

I think you'll find Russian/Soviet soldiers weren't encouraged take their bolts apart either. But if they had to, I can tell you which one is FAR simpler and easier and it's not the MN. Unless your firing pin breaks there is no reason to take the bolt head off a Lee Enfield anyway, and if it was immersed in water for a while all you'd do is unscrew the bolt head (Simple bolt thread not MN Rubic's Cube design) and shake the water out, dry by the fire, whatever. The recesses for the firing pin removal tool allow fluids to flow past the collar on the firing pin that retains the spring.

Take an oily MN bolt and blow sand over it and then do the same to an oily Lee Enfield bolt and then start cleaning. The Lee bolt will be clean long before the MN.

The MN bolt head recesses are a PITA to clean out if sand or mud gets in them, as it obviously will if you're fighting in sandy or wet terrain. The rear locking lugs of the Lee are far more accessible and much easier to clean. Also much less likely to foul as dirt is pushed out of them by the action of the bolt lugs!

 

[J996]

I'll still take the bolt with 3 lugs!! hehe.
And now I'm going to crank Lore,Lore,Lore! while I do 15 second field strips on 98k bolts.
Gute Nacht!!

 

[pizdets17]

peasants that beat the world strongest army in history (while the rest watched from afar), put the first man into space, invented the television, the periodic table, along with another few hundred firsts... Yea its probably crap..

Amen Brother.

The Mosin is a rough, sloppy rifle. It was built for and built by uneducated peasants (that's not a slight to the Russians, its just the facts of a wartime army/economy).

The Lee Enfield has a #### on close bolt that is so smooth it makes me cry. Tears of joy of course.

I reload 303 British and 7.62x54R (to name a few) and if I have the choice, I always reload for my No.1 Mk.3, No.4 Mk 1* and No.5 Mk 1 above anything else.

 

[RRCo.]

I like to think of it this way ....

When there's 50 or so thousands of pounds of pressure going off when you pull the trigger, would you rather have these two rather massively overbuilt locking lugs standing between your face and permanent disfigurement, or that flimsy little bolt head (assuming that it was still within specs to begin with) ?

I will grant you that when things are seriously dirty, the MN bolt may require a slap or 2 to get her closed. Once she is closed however, you can rest assured that there is one hellovalot fo steel to go thru before anything gets near your face, a luxury the Lee-Enfield design does not have.

A purely psychological advantage. When did you last hear of someone blowing up a Lee Enfield with factory ammo? (Or any ammo for that matter)

Better get a P14/M17 then. All advantages(?) of front locking with most of the advantages of the Lee Enfield, except of course the 10 round mag. That's one rifle that points even better than the No4 and almost as well as the SMLE; just not quite as well balanced as the SMLE.

At least the Russian/Soviet soldier had the option of taking their bolt appart if need be, a luxury that British/Commonwealth soldiers did not have.

Purely a luxury. I'd take a removable 10 round mag over that luxury any day.

In my experience (yes I'm one of those guys that clean their rifle once a year, maybe, if I feel like it, even if I've been shooting corrosive ammo) the MN's locking lugs tend to push out any crap that got in there out as they function and onto the bolt handle, just as they were designed to do.

I was talking about the front locking lugs of the MN. Like all front lockers, the recesses are pretty much blind holes, which would take a large bottle brush to clean and then not very well.

The Enfield on the other hand, tends to not get rid of crap, keep it between the bolt head and the cartridge, and eventually extrude the crap in question down the hole where the firing pin is, and on to the spring that you as an individual soldier can't take appart ... The Lee Enfield has no bolt head recess or lips, unlike the MN, so nothing holds dirt in the corners interfering with the seating of the round - because there are no corners to funnel the dirt towards the firing pin hole like on the MN a lot less gets in. Unlike the blind recesses of a front locker like the MN, the locking recesses of the Lee Enfield are in plain sight, where you can literally brush the dirt off both the bolt and the right side recess with your finger and on the left side, you just whip out the bolt, flip up the sight (on a No4) and use a twig, key, knife, pull through end whatever you have handy.

If my MN bolt gets gritty, I just whip out my issue cleaning kit, take the thing appart, clean it, then reassemble, it even comes with a crude but effective firing pin protrusion guage.

And if a Lee Enfield bolt gets gritty you just wipe off the outside and you're done. Firing pin protrusion gauge? Why would a soldier need that? Presumably if his rifle is so poorly made or prone to wear that the protrusion changes so fast the unit armourer can't keep a grip on it? Weird.

 

[cyclone]

If the Lee-Enfield was sorta soldier-proof , The Mosin was peasant-proof......

 

[Calum]

To say Mosins only work in Russia overlooks the many wars were they have been used with great success from Jungle to Desert conditions.

And once again, the cartridge interrupter...

[youtube]FXRY2j3RaUs[/youtube]

Something the Enfield design could have benefited from.

 

[ArtyMan]

and if it was immersed in water for a while all you'd do is unscrew the bolt head (Simple bolt thread not MN Rubic's Cube design) and shake the water out, dry by the fire, whatever.

Take an oily MN bolt and blow sand over it and then do the same to an oily Lee Enfield bolt and then start cleaning. The Lee bolt will be clean long before the MN.

Well if my rifle was immersed in water, the last thing I would want to have to do is unscrew something, shake the water out and find a nice fire to dry it off with, hopefully all before the rifle was needed for combat. If the Mosin gets wet its simple, pull the trigger, cycle out the spent round, and give er another- too easy, no dissasembly or searching for a nice fire!

True the Enfield bolt can be wiped down a bit faster then the Mosin bolt, but the Enfield bolt will NEED to be wiped down, whereas the Mosin wont - she will keep going, regardless of how hard the crevaces are too get too (which there not at all, try a round with a patch wrapped around the bullet - just saying).

With the tiny little bump of the rifles muzzle end the bedding can be all shot throwing your rounds like a mall ninja with a 12 guage. Where as I have seen several Mosins dropped and the only thing that needed to be done, was bend down and pick em up.

Dont get me wrong, the Enfield has MORE then proved itself over time, and is among one of the finest battle rifles ever designed, but, over a Mosin in terms of reliability, simplicity, ease of everything, durability and overall badass ness, well, the Mosin wins