this is a Finnish capture rifle . definitely has seen a refurb. the SA stamp and two piece stock are a definite sign.I'm thinking I have a never issued one as well. A friend and I bought them through a mail order years ago and I seem to recall they were less than $100. When the 2 boxes arrived I picked one and he the other to keep it fair. Mine didn't have a blemish, not a mark on steel or wood.
His looked like it had been used as a traction device for a tank...
I took the top wood off and unfortunately have misplaced it. Tula armory 1937 so It should have seen action but it's user must have been a desk clerk or the most careful Russian ever. All matching numbers.
Mosin - Never Issued ?
- Thread starter John303
- Start date
There are never issued SVT-40 made in 1943-1945 in existance. But in 1943 SVT-40 was not a primary weapon...
There is also a difference between "un-issued" and "un-used"...
I have a 1938 91/30, all matching (even the bayo), that is in borderline immaculate condition. Just a couple of very light scuff marks in front of the handguard barrel bands where they were removed a couple of times for cleaning. No dings on the stock, no noticiable wear signs, smooth (for a Mosin) action... Really great rifle.
But I'm pretty sure, based on the date of manufacture, that it would have been issued. My guess is it got issued to comrade in the rear with the gear, and it spent the war propped up next to a filing cabinet, probably almost never shot, and only taken apart for cleaning for the odd inspection. I've only put a couple hundred rounds through it in the past couple of years since I got it, and that's probably more use than it saw in service.
Keep in mind, that while the conflict on the Eastern Front was vast and epic, thousands upon thousands of troops were issued rifles, but never actually saw any combat. It stands to reason that these same rifles that were issued to rear-echelon troops, and never used, would have a very high survival rate and account for the fairly large number of excellent condition Mosins floating around the surplus market without refurb marks.
But the records are so sparse, that it would be impossible to verify my theory one way or another.
So, in the end, take an excellent grade non-refurbed Mosin for what it is - a fine piece of history in excellent condition that you'll never truly know the story of the journey it took from the factory to your safe.
I have a 1938 91/30, all matching (even the bayo), that is in borderline immaculate condition. Just a couple of very light scuff marks in front of the handguard barrel bands where they were removed a couple of times for cleaning. No dings on the stock, no noticiable wear signs, smooth (for a Mosin) action... Really great rifle.
But I'm pretty sure, based on the date of manufacture, that it would have been issued. My guess is it got issued to comrade in the rear with the gear, and it spent the war propped up next to a filing cabinet, probably almost never shot, and only taken apart for cleaning for the odd inspection. I've only put a couple hundred rounds through it in the past couple of years since I got it, and that's probably more use than it saw in service.
Keep in mind, that while the conflict on the Eastern Front was vast and epic, thousands upon thousands of troops were issued rifles, but never actually saw any combat. It stands to reason that these same rifles that were issued to rear-echelon troops, and never used, would have a very high survival rate and account for the fairly large number of excellent condition Mosins floating around the surplus market without refurb marks.
But the records are so sparse, that it would be impossible to verify my theory one way or another.
So, in the end, take an excellent grade non-refurbed Mosin for what it is - a fine piece of history in excellent condition that you'll never truly know the story of the journey it took from the factory to your safe.
Tough to say without handling your rifle - but it likely did go through a 'light refurb' or a refurb that was done so it looks new with some schellac pealing (very well can be all matching with bayonet). Unless completely unsanded with strong stock cartouches - you rifle is a refurb.
The refurb process was a "make work' prepardness activity for a war that never happened. You see this with SKS rifles the best. You can see true un-issued rifles, or rifles that were issued but not used - these may simply have rack wear (usually these have black paint applied to the butt plates) these are often not refurb stamped but are refurb files - black paint applied/not as issued), then you can see a varying degree of refurb's were done to simply approving a rifle to complete re-builds.
The refurb process was a "make work' prepardness activity for a war that never happened. You see this with SKS rifles the best. You can see true un-issued rifles, or rifles that were issued but not used - these may simply have rack wear (usually these have black paint applied to the butt plates) these are often not refurb stamped but are refurb files - black paint applied/not as issued), then you can see a varying degree of refurb's were done to simply approving a rifle to complete re-builds.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
the Russians had more arms then most think I read somewhere they had enough rifles to arm everybody 7 times over that said I don't think many 91/30 did not see combat
I had a never issued Polish in cosmoline that I sold for several hundred. It was from the early 50s. I had a 1897 with no Soviet embellishments and a restored stock that went for nearly $1K. It is about getting real collectibles and waiting for the buyer that understands what it is really worth. BTW, I could get double in the US as with most military firearms!
Henry
Henry
Another way to look at it...
If the rifle is too new looking, the original owner didn't last very long....
How many soldiers went kaput before their boots even touched soil. How many were ambushed, surrendered etc etc etc....
How many of those russians were forced to run at german tanks with that mosin only to be machine gunned down, and afterwards be thrown into a vast pit with their minty fresh Mosing Nagant rifle being captured and put into stocks?
Would you consider that not having seen action?
If the rifle is too new looking, the original owner didn't last very long....
How many soldiers went kaput before their boots even touched soil. How many were ambushed, surrendered etc etc etc....
How many of those russians were forced to run at german tanks with that mosin only to be machine gunned down, and afterwards be thrown into a vast pit with their minty fresh Mosing Nagant rifle being captured and put into stocks?
Would you consider that not having seen action?
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
those guns tend to have been refurbished because of rust and pitting after sitting in the mud and blood
Turned into an interesting discussion and thank you all. My grandson's rifle is about as nice as one could hope for, his opinion is it's a refurb.
My opinion may differ but I'm no expert and he's a happy camper. After looking it over but being Mauser skewed I may look for one myself.
--- John
My opinion may differ but I'm no expert and he's a happy camper. After looking it over but being Mauser skewed I may look for one myself.
--- John
Its Finnish captured mosin. Refurbished in finland. Its not rare to see some looking like new cond. Very better than a original russian 91/30 but not new for sure. The trigger not blued and the SA marking on receiver plus the two piece stock mean the rifle has been refurbished by finland at some point. Original serial on parts has been scrubbed and rematched by finn putting other part in the spec.
