Mosin not accurate with hunting rounds

skneub

skneub

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Was Tween Digby and Yarmouth .....Escaped back hom
Took it out , shooting china milsurp fmj at 254yards...total accurate hit where you aim it.
for kicks fired a couple Msf 220 grain softpoints first one is a foot high ??
Second was a foot high and 2 feet right
now this ain't a shooter issue , rest on the hood of my truck
10 mil rounds right on the pin

thinking there's inconsistansy of the load on the hunting rounds , causing the rifle to flex ?

I had expected them to come in low...but two feet right and high

thoughts on this ?
 
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Thought #1: You need to shoot a heck of a lot more than 2rds before you sight in the rifle

Thought #2: Shoot in groups of 3 and adjust the sight accordingly

Thought #3: Use a sand bag or a carpeted stack of 2x4' with a notch cut - The hood of the truck can be slippery
 
Totally different bullet weight. 150ish grains is standard for FMJ. Assuming you're not sighted using yellow tip heavy ball 182 grain PKM ammo. 220 grain soft points are almost 50% heavier than milsurp FMJ...
I would have also expected low impact. Use a proper rest and 5 shot groups to find the POI for the heavier round.
Maybe check the bullet diameters, the commercial rounds might have undersize bullets for your bore. Or maybe the twist isn't fast enough for stabilizing that heavy bullet.
 
It wouldn't have surprised me so much that a change in ammo (especially if it involved a significant change in bullet weight) would have changed the point of impact, though I would still expect the newer ammo to group, even if in a vastly different spot. Since the barrel is prone to flexing upon firing, even a relatively small change in velocity or bullet weight could make a significant change in POI far greater than might be suggested by the balistics tables.

A couple more rounds, taken slowly with time for the rifle to cool would have been helpful, at least to determine whether the distance between the first and second shot was user error, though I think that you were probably correct that it's hitting at a different spot.

Could you tell us what type of ammo it is? Since the Mosins usually have more generous bores (i.e. .311 or .312") it's possible that an otherwise good rifle might not shoot well with commercial rounds or even reloads with narrower bullets (i.e. My Lee reloading manual lists .308 bullets for 7.62x54R, though I'm pretty sure that I'd probably want .310 or .311 bullets for most rifles, perhaps with the exception of some of the Finn rebuilds).

I'm also curious as to whether you changed your shooting stance or position when shooting off of your truck. The normal preference with a smoother bolt gun is to snugly rest the forened and possibly even the but into a position that won't change at least while firing a single group, since once you adjust the rifle or move your hands, shoulder or cheek, that could greatly effect your group size and POI. Easy enough in theory and practice with a smooth K31, Mauser and perhaps even Enfields, but the stiffer bolt of the Mosin usually results in some movement. I've also once or twice found that I shot high when shooting impromptu off of a table with a lower resting spot for my rifle forend (the awkwardness of the position naturally points the muzzle upwards).

We need more details. I'm pretty sure that the more experienced milsurp afficionadoes could better help troubleshoot your scenario with more information.

Cheers,

Frank
 
No change in stance .
same place on the truck ....honestly the 10 surp was totaly underestemated lmao.

rifle was warm , not hot.
but your not gonna wanna snuggle it ...
after fireing the softpoints and seeing where they went i loaded up more surplus and it was accurate.
so heat shouldent be the issue.
I'm not gonna bother to sight it with soft points.
but i had expected it to group ..though low.
good steady shooting position off my truck , nobody else touching it etc etc

I dunno ..i was disapointed i guess
 
Could you tell us what type of ammo it is? Since the Mosins usually have more generous bores (i.e. .311 or .312") it's possible that an otherwise good rifle might not shoot well with commercial rounds or even reloads with narrower bullets (i.e. My Lee reloading manual lists .308 bullets for 7.62x54R, though I'm pretty sure that I'd probably want .310 or .311 bullets for most rifles, perhaps with the exception of some of the Finn rebuilds).
Click to expand...

The nominal groove diameter of ALL Russian Mosin Nagants is .311". However many of them vary up to as much as .314". All Finnish variants with the exception of the M28/30 (.308") have a groove diameter of .309". The Finnish 7.62x53R (yes 53) is loaded with .309s If I remember correctly, M39 variants are .310" so you'd have no problems running .311 bullets through them. Groove diameters do vary from the standard by a thousandth of an inch or two sometimes though so the best thing you can do to figure out yours (and the best bullet diameter to use) is to slug your bore.
 
It might just be as Beadwindow stated.
perhaps the Msf rounds are smaller and not picking up the rifleing .
cause this sucker shoots great with that china brand milsup ammo....I have no intention of actualy hunting with this gun so its no biggy.
But thought it might be a heads up for someone that may
I mostly just fire a non corrosive round as a last shot to help clean residue out of the bore when I'm done shooting for the day
 
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I strongly advise you to run boiling water through your bore and into your bolt to rinse out the postassium chlorate that accumulates after shooting corrosive ammo. It takes an extra 5 minutes, and can save your rifle from needless wear and corrosion, which will, in turn, further reduce the accuracy.
 
I've fired the MFS FMJ, I think it is 185gr and wasn't impressed with it either. Groups were double the size of some Bell 150gr and handloads (not that handloads are a fair comparison) that I was shooting on the same range trip. I've fired the MFS 123gr FMJ in my SKS and found it wanting as well. The only reason I bother with it is some cheap(er) plinking when I know I may not have time to clean the rifle that same day. Otherwise I just shoot surplus as I find it more accurate than the MFS and its just over half the cost.
 
It's funny you say that, because yesterday I was reading a new surplus firearms mag, and they had an article written of the Mosin Nagant. When it came time for the range test, their results showed 2.5-3" groups with surplus, and 4-6" groups with two different modern hunting ammunition makers. At the time, I thought it was a misprint...
 
Everything I own in 7.62x54 shoots better with .312 180gr Hornady soft points. I've had good luck with MFS and best luck with LVE, both in 205gr. S&B and PRVI also work well, but as said, everything shoots better with .312 home loads.


I'd slug the barrel to see what it measures out at?
 
How about this? The heavy bullets have a lower muzzle velocity, and they are probably slightly slower leaving the muzzle. The slight extra recoil due to the heavier bullet M =mass V= velocity 1 is the rifle 2 is the bullet (M1XV1=M2XV2)is enough to move the rifle butt back and the muzzle up that much more as the bullet nears the muzzle, changing the poi of the heavy bullets up? my $.02

Also sounds like crappy ammunition.
 
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The wartime 91/30s (which I assume your shooting) were designed to fire the Soviet 150gr light ball ammunition. Sometimes some people get decent results out of 180ish gr bullets, but anything higher then that and you risk not properly stabilizing the bullet. The MFS stuff is junk compared to quality surplus or as mentioned, handloads. If you want excellent accuracy out of a soft point or hunting specific bullet in this caliber, more often then not you will have to reload.

In regards to POI, that will definitely shift when using a different bullet weight that was designed for it/sighted in with.
 
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