Mosin PU Sniper value question

MrPuffyPants

MrPuffyPants

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Hello,

I am looking at an Izhevsk PU sniper that looks by all accounts to be authentic.
- Front sight post is longer version and offset properly
- cut out for mount appears proper and not done after stock was shellacked.
- Scope and Mount are authentic (checked numerous items all good)
- Bolt is not buba'd and matches the rifle
- All rifle numbers match (no force matching)
- Scope mount electropencil, scope, and pressed number in the barrel match

**
One issue with it is nagging at me. It is a 1943, but has *(what I believe) is a post war stock on it (the pressed in metal bushing on the sling cutout).
Could that have been the original stock? If not, how does that affect the value?

If you really know what you are talking about, would you mind PMing me with a price that you think would be reasonable to pay for such a rifle?

I am just getting started collecting, and don't want to over pay.

Thanks in advance!
 
MrPuffyPants said:
Hello,

I am looking at an Izhevsk PU sniper that looks by all accounts to be authentic.
- Front sight post is longer version and offset properly
- cut out for mount appears proper and not done after stock was shellacked.
- Scope and Mount are authentic (checked numerous items all good)
- Bolt is not buba'd and matches the rifle
- All rifle numbers match (no force matching)
- Scope mount electropencil, scope, and pressed number in the barrel match

**
One issue with it is nagging at me. It is a 1943, but has *(what I believe) is a post war stock on it (the pressed in metal bushing on the sling cutout).
Could that have been the original stock? If not, how does that affect the value?

If you really know what you are talking about, would you mind PMing me with a price that you think would be reasonable to pay for such a rifle?

I am just getting started collecting, and don't want to over pay.

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be concerned about the stock unless the cutout is wrong. Stocks and Mosins are another chapter in the realm of collecting. Check out this link for stocks:
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinFeatures06.htm

I'm not an expert but this is one of the better sources of information for spotting fake PU snipers:
http://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/app.php/page/66

Price is kind of strange right now. There is no good answer but around $850 to $900 is a fair number for the average authentic PU. Crappy Tire sold them for $799 until they got out of the Russian rifle business (remember the guy with the cut up SKS in Kamloops?)

I would PM this info but there's no harm in sharing with all.
 
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old_man said:
Sounds like you have a refurb PU.
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^this. At 8-900$ range i think it’s fair. More than that i’ll pass. Funny thing is that , even the repro PU recently put together with average 91/30 and repro scope and base and sold by different source including Westrifle, are selling for about the same price, they are advertised as repro and thus not technically "fake". I’ll prefer an original refurb over a recent repro any day of the week. I have a Molot refurb in the condition you described and i paid a little less than 850$ shipped with the original box and papers from Molot.
 
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It all depends on condition, back in 1985 I bought the nicest 1941 PU I have ever seen for $800.00 from Mil-arm. That was 2 weeks wages for me back then.
I was at the Edmonton Gun show a few years back and I brought it for show and tell for a few of my friends, all matching with a blonde stock.
Martin from Corwin Arms spotted it from 3 isles over and hotfooted over asking if it was for sale, it was not but the consensus was a fair price would be $2500.00.
So depending on condition $750 up.
 
mr.e moose said:
It all depends on condition, back in 1985 I bought the nicest 1941 PU I have ever seen for $800.00 from Mil-arm. That was 2 weeks wages for me back then.
I was at the Edmonton Gun show a few years back and I brought it for show and tell for a few of my friends, all matching with a blonde stock.
Martin from Corwin Arms spotted it from 3 isles over and hotfooted over asking if it was for sale, it was not but the consensus was a fair price would be $2500.00.
So depending on condition $750 up.
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To the crux of the issue.
4 or more types of guns available:
Outright intentional fakes worth nothing or $800 to the unwary buyer (I should add that these can be well done and command the higher prices)
Reproduction rifles worth around $750 hopefully made from real sniper parts and hopefully NOT ex snipers brought back to life
Refurbs worth around $900. These are the the most common garden variety "real sniper"
Original snipers not refurbed which are easily worth north of 2 grand. They are out there for sale and there are a couple on EE.

For every real sniper there are more than a few fakes or repros. Most snipers are refurbs so knowing what to look for is really important. If you can't afford the big bucks for a verified sniper, you will need to look at every part of the gun including the story behind why it is for sale. Take lots of pictures and post them for the forum to look at.
 
Generally a ex-sniper has a shot out bore and the scope and mount has been repurposed to another rifle hence all the electro penciled mounts on the current batches of refurbed Mosin sniper rifles.
 
mr.e moose said:
Generally a ex-sniper has a shot out bore and the scope and mount has been repurposed to another rifle hence all the electro penciled mounts on the current batches of refurbed Mosin sniper rifles.
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+1 to mr e moose
The ex-snipers have worn bores out so why spend a premium to buy one? It's unfortunate that the ex-snipers are being rebuilt but where there's a buck to be made...
 
Outright intentional fakes worth nothing or $800 to the unwary buyer (I should add that these can be well done and command the higher prices)
Reproduction rifles worth around $750 hopefully made from real sniper parts and hopefully NOT ex snipers brought back to life
Refurbs worth around $900. These are the the most common garden variety "real sniper"
Original snipers not refurbed which are easily worth north of 2 grand. They are out there for sale and there are a couple on EE.
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I'm trying to understand the pricing on all this.

Run of the mill Mosin 91/30's that where well under $200. a few years ago are now going for, 3-$400 + tax

A refurb Sniper - tax in, a few years ago, was anywhere from $760. - $900.

They are now going for $900. ??

(Just a hundred or so above fakes and reproductions)

Ok, I'm lost!
 
cigar_man said:
I'm trying to understand the pricing on all this.

Run of the mill Mosin 91/30's that where well under $200. a few years ago are now going for, 3-$400 + tax

A refurb Sniper - tax in, a few years ago, was anywhere from $760. - $900.

They are now going for $900. ??

(Just a hundred or so above fakes and reproductions)

Ok, I'm lost!
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IMO
I honestly think the market got flooded with all the reproductions. Not everyone wants a Russian sniper rifle so it has always been somewhat of a niche market. Taking into account the repro's and the usual used sales, the market is destined to stay flat for a while. My bet is that the refurb snipers will settle around a grand for a while and everything else will be around $750. The true original non-refurbished snipers are not common and already are north of 2 grand, never to lose value.
91/30's used to be pretty easy to find everywhere but they have been bought up and hardly any new guns are coming to market. The latest all seem to be shooter grade round receivers with the occasional diamond in the rough hex thrown into the mix. A $200 rifle which turned into $400 is still pretty accessible to the average casual collector so no surprise the price went there. I'd be shocked to see a 91/30 refurb hit $600 any time soon.
Maybe look at the SVT40 which was a steal until the supply dried up. Now everyone wants $650 plus for their gun. No repro's in that market and there are some really cool collectible variants. That's the gun to buy if you can afford a grand on a Russian milsurp. A very collectible weapon in my opinion...
 
mr.e moose said:
Generally a ex-sniper has a shot out bore and the scope and mount has been repurposed to another rifle hence all the electro penciled mounts on the current batches of refurbed Mosin sniper rifles.
Click to expand...

saskminer said:
+1 to mr e moose
The ex-snipers have worn bores out so why spend a premium to buy one? It's unfortunate that the ex-snipers are being rebuilt but where there's a buck to be made...
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Cool. Thanks. Learn something new every day.
 
Thanks everyone for your input.

My understanding is that this rifle came from Milarm, and there is some paperwork to back up it's 'authenticity' although the rifle was packed and certified in 2012.

Again, all appears to be perfect with the rifle proper. The only fly in the ointment is the fact that the stock is post war. The fellow is looking for $2000 which I would think if it was ALL original without refurbishment may be fair, but given the stock, I am wondering if 2K is too much.
 
MrPuffyPants said:
Thanks everyone for your input.

My understanding is that this rifle came from Milarm, and there is some paperwork to back up it's 'authenticity' although the rifle was packed and certified in 2012.

Again, all appears to be perfect with the rifle proper. The only fly in the ointment is the fact that the stock is post war. The fellow is looking for $2000 which I would think if it was ALL original without refurbishment may be fair, but given the stock, I am wondering if 2K is too much.
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The '43 will have a wartime stock however Mosins are truly unique in the way they were refurb'd including how the stock was handled. Say the rifle you propose to buy was a real fighter and saw lots of action. The exporter would look at that old beater stock and think "well I have a nice stock in the back room that will fit perfectly". He'd go put that new dress on and voila a "perfect" sniper - paperwork included. All totally above board and it's not like the stock means much if it was a real sniper stock. The only downside might be the fit which is easily rectified by using period correct shimming techniques. I like the stocks worn, dirty and potentially with wartime detritus still clinging to them. Hard if not impossible to find...
Bottom line is if you have a couple of grand to drop on the gun you have to like it. If you consider the stock to be a flaw then pass on the gun and keep shopping because that nagging doubt might well drive you crazy. Myself, I don't care much about finding intact Mosin stocks as long as they have not been refinished or otherwise messed with (except by the arsenal). Bring on the red shellac...
A parting thought: buying a beautiful pristine Russian sniper rifle would be buying a lightly used rifle. If you want history in your hands you want the bumps and bruises that come with battle.
 
My ex sniper PEM 42 Tula is far from shot out 3/4" 3 shot groups at 100 yards with PRC ball.I know the rarity of this one.
 
old_man said:
Is this the one you are looking at?

https://www.#######.ca/firearms/rifles/edmonton/original-1943-mosin-pu-sniper
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This one is a Molot refurb. Plenty of info on the net on thoses. Great rifle, but not worth even close to 2k$. I have one in similar condition with the boxe and papers too and i paid 835$ shipped a couple of months ago.

Btw, the papers in the add is not a "certificate of autenticity", it an instruction manual.
 
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