Most powerful and practical antique handgun

Horilka

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I've been wondering if it makes sense to substitute my bear repellent DA Grizzly 8.5" shotgun with some antique revolver which is lighter and smaller.
So what is the most powerful and reliable revolver available? Swiss, French, Dutch, Italian , Norwegian Nagant? Which caliber is able to take down black bear if needed and at the same time simple enough for reloading? I would also like to enjoy it as target shooting pistol at the range, not as safe queen. I could have compared muzzle energy I suppose but I know nothing about reliability of antique handguns.
 
Tough question because what they'll survive versus what they'll last for years shooting are two drastically different things. Realistically no antique is going to be 100% powerful enough to stop a bear... the calibers that most people would really put their trust in are beyond antiques (454, 44 magnum etc).

Now, if you want one for a fun plinker that runs on common ammo and could in theory make a bear's day miserable in a worst case scenario, you've got quite a few options. There's a trade off between common cals and powerful cals, since a lot of the old guns with the heaviest hitting cartridges were weird .50+ calibers. In this case I'm referring to the oddball .50 cal pryse models, big single or double barrel rolling block pistols, howda's etc. These all employ slow but very large grain bullets, but it's a strict case of handloading and you'll have to walk a fine line between functional and collectable which drives the price through the roof.

If you want something solid in a "smaller" caliber, then you're more in the common realm. You sacrifice some power in that you're limited to .44 and .45, so can't make up for lack of bullet weight by increasing the fps without risking eventual harm to the revolver, but you end up with a simpler to feed pistol. In these cases, you've got the SAA's, which are expensive but solid and reliable and often in modern cals like 44spl or 38spl; Reichsrevolvers which shoot 44 russian (10,6x25R German Ordnance) and are uber reliable, 1873 MAS revolvers in 11mm chambering or rechambered to 45acp or 455 webley which are more complicated but still very reliable and usually in great shape. In all these cases you have to choose your ammo carefully and select for low pressure lead only bullets to make sure your gun isn't unduly stressed and worn out prematurely. Can you get away with running higher pressures? I don't know...maybe? Do you want to find out you can't and end up with a parts gun?

If you merely want to annoy the bear while it chews on you, you can get into the .30-.40 caliber world of revolvers that're still eligible as antiques. Many of them are in amazing shape and are undervalued for what they are. They're often the most "modern" due to trends in design turning towards smaller calibers at the end of the antique eligible era, and are a ton of fun. Realistically I wouldn't choose an antique to carry if I was actually legitimately worried about bears, and you can't hunt with them in most provinces, so it comes down to how much you want to shoot them and how happy you are reloading.

Most importantly regardless of what gun you choose, with antiques you really get what you pay for. If you get a deal, be prepared for more difficulties in reloading or fixing something wrong with it. At 117+ years old minimum these can be simple issues to unfixable ones. Or you might just get a great deal and make us all jealous. If you do, post pics ;)


P.S. There are some oddball guns out there, speaking specifically to the italian, belgian, austro-hungarian and spanish guns, that vary hugely in quality, but generally aren't considered super collectible. If you really do your research you might find a solid condition one that would fit the bill perfectly, but frankly, you'll probably have more luck with those listed above.
 
I would say as far handguns go remington 1875 if its got a modern cylinder in 45 sch or 44 sp. I have 4 of them and i know of one that was converted to 38 sp/ 357 magnum with a modern cylinder. It shot factory 357 magnum loads a few boxes thru it with no damage to the gun. i dont recomend doing that tho always reload and use the best powder bullet loads with the less pressure curve.
the 1875 remy is a very strong soild frame gun, stronger than a saa colt.
or a gun like the great big werder 1869 pistol (but its only single shot so dont miss LOL) uses a shortened 45 70 cartridge packs a wallop with the right reloads.

As far as takeing out a black bear plenty have been killed with antique handguns in the late 1800s even with remington 1861 percussion handguns,,, but would i count on that No i would not.
If one was chewing on you and you could find the dexterity and composure to stick the barrel in the side of his head or mouth then a webley MKI or MKII in 455 or 45 acp is still better than a pointy stick :)
take your 12 ga for the bear killing the antique handgun might help if your in a pinch tho thats why i carry mine in remoat wilderness when im with my 3 dogs.

This is my 1875 remy below with a modern cylinder shoots 44 russian and 44 sp loads.
This gun has shot some of elmer keiths 44 sp 2400 loads with his 250 Gr sized .430 SWC bullets.
It will bark really well when needed.


Heres a SAA colt in 455/ 45 acp it can handle some pretty hefty reloads to but you better read up on reloading if you want to get more power from some of theses guns.
best to keep the reloads lite for the most part but they can and do work good when needed if you know what your doing.
theres other good strong guns to like Colt DA 1878s alot of the soild frame webleys are good also the 83 RICs and regular RICs are strong guns.

Use the 12 ga tho for bear defence is my advise.

 
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stick with a shotgun heck id ditch the 8.5 barrel shotgun as well not enough ammo in the tube. no antique is going to be a bear stopper most if not all of them need light loads with lead bullets or else they will wear out quickly or worse something like a .45 acp webley can't take standard .45 acp ammo as this is almost double the proof load(loads that only are fired a handful of times to proof the gun) for a webley. plus antique handguns cost a hell of a lot more then what you will pay for a shotgun
 
pretty much what wally mentioned .

myself personally , I am a little bit leary of anything converted to 45 acp .

the first thing I look at on a 45acp conversion is this , measure the diameter of the throat in the cylinder .
it should be around .450 - .455 ish , .452-.453 being ideal in my mind .

if the throat is around .448 or smaller avoid the gun , it may have been over stressed from being exposed to very high pressure .
the reason for this , a tight throat will cause the pressures in the cylinder to jump very high as it swags down the bullet .



if the throat is on the loose side , the pressures in the cylinder won't jump sky high because the throat isn't trying to swag down the bullet , instead the bullet hits the forcing cone fullsized and is squeezed down to fit the barrel .
this also makes the gun more accurate as well as safer .


if a guy isn't able to fabricate parts and repair a antique on his own , he really has no business using it as " protection " .
something used for protection of life means ; it must absolutely function flawlessly , no quirks , no holding it just right to get it to advance to the next round , and for want of a better term , no pieces of sh*t .
this also means your handloads must be beyond perfect .
anyone should be able to pick the gun up and fire each and every round without a hiccup .

to get something reliable and set up to reload is going to cost a guy 2 to 3 thousand dollars on the low end

for around 600.00 you can buy a rossi ranchand in 44 magnum . easily twice the power of any antique , it functions reliably and you can buy reliable off the shelf ammo for it for 1/4 the cost of an antique . and being a rifle , you can legally hunt with it .


with that said , in my backpack you will find a French 1973 chambered in 45schofield ...... just in case .
 
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I should add though, regardless of the justification for buying one (I know, bear defense makes for great mental justification :d ), antiques are tons of fun, and being able to legally shoot in the woods is one of the most freeing and relaxing things to do. There's really no downside to them, so may as well bite the bullet and buy one :)
 
Stay with the shotgun or get a Ranch hand...which while they are neat, require a real back stock. You can put on your cowboy hat and pretend you are Steve McQueen, but you still will likely not be able to hit a darn thing with it stock.
Let alone when a bear is running toward you so fast he'd get a ticket in a school zone.
 
Any double-barrelled Howdah pistol whose calibre begins with '5'. Although the four-barrelled Lancaster in .476cal is quite impressive, a SxS .500BPE or .577 Snider is also pretty mean.

tac
 
I would agree with those who have said that more or less all of the antique handguns are relatively weak in comparison with modern guns and particularly in comparison with modern rifles and shotguns. Over and above that, bigger is not necessarily better when it comes to hand guns. Because of their relatively short barrels, velocities tend to be relatively slow and I suspect a smaller diameter hard bullet moving faster might penetrate farther than a slow fat soft one. It is also a question of where you shoot the bear; most spots are not instantly lethal and probably your only hope for a rapid kill would be with the gun touching its head as it is about to bite your leg :>( Shots to the body may turn the animal, probably much more so for a black bear than a grizzly, but potentially that ends with a wounded bear waiting for the next victim. I think a short light rifle such as a short model 94 in 30-30 would be your best bet

cheers mooncoon
 
Thanks to everybody who stayed on topic and explained everything is great details. Tons of new things to consider for me, glad that I asked. My current 8.5 shotty is mag fed for fast reloading (anyway shotty has to be carried unloaded and mags provide fast way to correct it) so I'm not concerned about capacity. Military issue antique handgunds were always of my interest, so I will eventually buy some, it just prices on them normally start north of grand and I hesitated many times...
 
Thanks to everybody who stayed on topic and explained everything is great details. Tons of new things to consider for me, glad that I asked. My current 8.5 shotty is mag fed for fast reloading (anyway shotty has to be carried unloaded and mags provide fast way to correct it) so I'm not concerned about capacity. Military issue antique handgunds were always of my interest, so I will eventually buy some, it just prices on them normally start north of grand and I hesitated many times...

who says shotguns have to be carried unloaded
 
I've been charged by a bear as has one of my friends. I was armed, he was not. My bear backed off at 15m on it's third feint. His swatted him on the cheek.

I asked what gun would have helped. Answer - one in my hands! However, he had two dogs that were mixing it up with the bear until it ran off. He said he would not have fired into the melee.

The Rossi 'Ranch Hand' is a neat toy. If you hand time to deploy it, it might do the job, calibre wise. Practice would help.

Two pals annually attend a Forestry training session that includes a 'charging bear' target they engage with 12 gauge shotguns, usually a pump. Both are CAS competitors and one had his SxS.
The 'bear' charges from 25m. Most get off two shots before the 'bear' is upon them, if they haven't short stroked the gun. My pals managed three. Misses were common for most. They said it was unnerving, and this was just play.

Conclusion - best 'bear defence' gun is a 12 ga SxS with two quick, non-jamming, non-short stroking shots - "Blam, Blam!" After that, the bear wins.
 
As I remember (I might be wrong) but unless you're preparing to shoot the target or in pursue of game your firearm has to be unloaded. Am I wrong?

where did you hear that nonsense unless you are in a vehicle or in a area where discharge of a firearm is prohibited your shotgun can be loaded and carried. also for black bear id stagger the rounds in the tube with 00 buck and slugs ditch the mag fed as they have been proven unreliable if you do not slam the slide home
 
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