Most Precise and Accurate Barrels available in Canada??
- Thread starter rcan
- Start date
+1
It was just probably a case of some real champ shooter that used a Krieger and everyone thought they could do just as well with his equipement, even though the champ might've had the same results with any of the higher quality match barrels... Just my 2¢
No. They are blanks only.
Need your smith to chamber, thread and crown the barrel. That way the barrel is mated to your specific action.
If the barrel can't put the bullets where they are supposed to go, no shooter in the world is going to win with it.
If the shooter knows that the barrel will deliver the bullet within a 1/4 or 1/2 min in a no wind condition at any given distance, then he can compensate for wind and mirage properly to win a match.
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You missed my point, but I'm somewhat to blame, since I didn't put what I said into context: there was a poll on 6mmbr.com that Obtunded referred to that showed just how popular Kriegers were amongts target shooters. The point that I was trying to make was that it might just be the case that many of these custom barrels are of similar quality, but a popular shooter happened to prefer Kriegers, which made others jump on that bandwagon... e.g. how much better is a Krieger than, say, a Lilja?
Buy me one and I'll test it for you free of charge
In fact, if anyone wants ANY barrel tested against my Krieger's, send me a straight blank in 6mm that will finish at 28" and I'll post my findings here for everyone to see and make up their own minds. I'll also include a Cut Rifled vs Button Rifled comparison.
Barrels to test (in order of preference):
Bartlein
Broughton
Lilja
Maclennan
Shilen
McGowen
Douglas
Gaillard
Smith (Already tested one of these but we may as well do a complete comparison)
PM me for mailing address.
LOL
- Location
- Virden, MB
Buy me one and I'll test it for you free of charge
In fact, if anyone wants ANY barrel tested against my Krieger's, send me a straight blank in 6mm that will finish at 28" and I'll post my findings here for everyone to see and make up their own minds.
LOL
I'll do the exact same if you wanna compare to a Bartlein.
I don't think it was due to "One Champ" I think when people see the barrels that are in the top 3 or 4 constantly they tend to migrate towards those barrels.
If they are winning matches, there must be something good about them.
To be honest, I went with Kreiger's simply because my buddy decided to start bringing them into Canada in large numbers at a good price.
Mine have produced stellar results so far, so why deviate from that trend?
I don't consider myself to be a phenomenal shooter by any means, but with a hummer of a barrel strapped to your action (and put there by an exceptional gun plumber) I think you have a much better chance of getting the bullet where you want/need it.
Top 5 finishers in F-Open at the BC provincials were shooting Kreiger's. They were also all from the same club.
CyaN1de, would it be all the same if I flew you in to Mtl first class and provided five star accomodation for you to do the testing locally? I can't stand the prospect of barrel shipping mishaps on the way out West...
That aside, if the barrel works - terrific, I don't mean you should change it... As for that match, were Kriegers used by the majority of shooters overall? It could just be statistics that the top five ended up with the same manufacturer... I just wonder what the difference is between all these high-end match-grade barrels - someone should do the testing you propose, settle it once and for all (including the break-in debate
).
That aside, if the barrel works - terrific, I don't mean you should change it... As for that match, were Kriegers used by the majority of shooters overall? It could just be statistics that the top five ended up with the same manufacturer... I just wonder what the difference is between all these high-end match-grade barrels - someone should do the testing you propose, settle it once and for all (including the break-in debate
).LOL....I would rather do the testing from home.
The break in debate will never be settled. Even my crack...errrmm....barrel dealer differs with me on this one. I'm for it...he's against it. Let's just say the years results speak for themselves.
The break in debate will never be settled. Even my crack...errrmm....barrel dealer differs with me on this one. I'm for it...he's against it. Let's just say the years results speak for themselves.
Every barrel maker out there makes some exceptional barrels. Every barrel maker out there produces a few that are poor. Some produce more poor barrels than others. The best of each manufacturer will shoot as good as the next brand. That is a fact.
I got into the business because I once went through the long tedious process of purchasing the best components I could get my hands on, including one brand of barrel (brand not important). After spending thousands on components, over a year in waiting for everything to arrive and months in the 'smith's shop, the rifle would not shoot to save my soul. 6 different bullet types, multiple powders and extensive load development resulted in a gun that was just his side of mediocre.
I went back to shooting my other trusted rifles and gave the gun to another more experienced shooter to play with and he never got the damned thing to work. After a thousand rounds of load development, I shelved the gun until a year later, when I put a well-know top grade match barrel on it and the results were IMMEDIATELY apparent: It was a tack driver.
I wasted a great deal of time and money on a barrel that never shot worth a damned.
I spoke with lots of other shooters that had experienced mixed results with this brand of my first barrel, and I was rather PO'd. I spoke with many shooters that knew what they were doing and I realized that barrel brands DO make a difference. Investing in a barrel that has a stirling reputation for accuracy and consistency is the best way to stack the odds in your favour that your barrel will be as accurate as possible.
In the years since then, i have invested in several barrel types including a few of those mantioned here and I have had mostly good and some not so good results. The best non-Krieger I ever used was a Gaillard.
The most consistently accurate brand of barrel I used was Krieger. They were hard to get in Canada and you had to go through several layers of importers to get them.
I think it is good that people ask these sorts of questions, because the truth is, there is little hard proof one way or the other which is the best. There is no one right answer, and If I rant too loud why I am utterly sold on Krieger, I just come off like a barrel pimp.
If you are curious, actually talk with shooters that know what they are doing. The internet is so full of armchair experts and this forum is no different, but see for yourself. Serious competitive shooters do NOT want to waste their time and money shooting a gun that won't win and they have their distinct preferences as to which barrels have given them the best service.
On the other side of the coin, ask gunsmiths what barrels they have installed that have shown up with obvious serious flaws. I think you would be surprised.
I basically leave it up to shooters to do their own research and decide for themselves what they feel is going to give them the best chance of ending up with a tack driver in the end.
The barrel is not the whole story though. You MUST use a gunsmith that knows what he is is doing! I have seen and heard examples of gawd aweful workmanship. So has barrel maker Mick McPhee, and as a result, he only sells barrels if he does the install. He has seen many cases where incompetent installations have resulted in poor shooters, and the installer just blames the barrel.
At the end of it all though, CyaN1de is correct. You cannot become a better shooter if your rifle cannot put your shots through the same hole. If you have an accurate gun the rifle will TELL you where YOU screwed up.
FYI, CyaN1de is one of the best F-Class shooters in this country. He is in a class by himself, but in a game where you MUST shoot sub .4 MOA at 300M to win, and in an economy where a loaded 6BR round is well over a buck, you don't waste money or time on components with a mediocre reputation.
I got into the business because I once went through the long tedious process of purchasing the best components I could get my hands on, including one brand of barrel (brand not important). After spending thousands on components, over a year in waiting for everything to arrive and months in the 'smith's shop, the rifle would not shoot to save my soul. 6 different bullet types, multiple powders and extensive load development resulted in a gun that was just his side of mediocre.
I went back to shooting my other trusted rifles and gave the gun to another more experienced shooter to play with and he never got the damned thing to work. After a thousand rounds of load development, I shelved the gun until a year later, when I put a well-know top grade match barrel on it and the results were IMMEDIATELY apparent: It was a tack driver.
I wasted a great deal of time and money on a barrel that never shot worth a damned.
I spoke with lots of other shooters that had experienced mixed results with this brand of my first barrel, and I was rather PO'd. I spoke with many shooters that knew what they were doing and I realized that barrel brands DO make a difference. Investing in a barrel that has a stirling reputation for accuracy and consistency is the best way to stack the odds in your favour that your barrel will be as accurate as possible.
In the years since then, i have invested in several barrel types including a few of those mantioned here and I have had mostly good and some not so good results. The best non-Krieger I ever used was a Gaillard.
The most consistently accurate brand of barrel I used was Krieger. They were hard to get in Canada and you had to go through several layers of importers to get them.
I think it is good that people ask these sorts of questions, because the truth is, there is little hard proof one way or the other which is the best. There is no one right answer, and If I rant too loud why I am utterly sold on Krieger, I just come off like a barrel pimp.
If you are curious, actually talk with shooters that know what they are doing. The internet is so full of armchair experts and this forum is no different, but see for yourself. Serious competitive shooters do NOT want to waste their time and money shooting a gun that won't win and they have their distinct preferences as to which barrels have given them the best service.
On the other side of the coin, ask gunsmiths what barrels they have installed that have shown up with obvious serious flaws. I think you would be surprised.
I basically leave it up to shooters to do their own research and decide for themselves what they feel is going to give them the best chance of ending up with a tack driver in the end.
The barrel is not the whole story though. You MUST use a gunsmith that knows what he is is doing! I have seen and heard examples of gawd aweful workmanship. So has barrel maker Mick McPhee, and as a result, he only sells barrels if he does the install. He has seen many cases where incompetent installations have resulted in poor shooters, and the installer just blames the barrel.
At the end of it all though, CyaN1de is correct. You cannot become a better shooter if your rifle cannot put your shots through the same hole. If you have an accurate gun the rifle will TELL you where YOU screwed up.
FYI, CyaN1de is one of the best F-Class shooters in this country. He is in a class by himself, but in a game where you MUST shoot sub .4 MOA at 300M to win, and in an economy where a loaded 6BR round is well over a buck, you don't waste money or time on components with a mediocre reputation.
Well......what did you decide on?
Canadian F(O) champ used Broughton barrels, PGWDTI M15 and Lapua brass and bullets. Good points have been made. Ted Gailard makes great barrels, as does McLennan, Bartlein, Rock Creek, Shilen, Hart, Krieger, Obermeyer(the Master).
Very informative post - I unfortunately don't have access to champ shooters here in Qc; long-range shooting competitions are really not general-public-friendly (which is why I ask so many questions here ). How would you say the average "poor" custom match-grade barrel compares to the average factory target barrel?
Too late.
). How would you say the average "poor" custom match-grade barrel compares to the average factory target barrel?Too late.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
The average poor match grade barrel will out shoot the average factory barrel. The best match grade barrels will shoot like it has 'eyes'.
Got to go out with my Shilen at 300m in some gusty switchy winds. Tried to get a constant condition, held center and fired. 3rds 3/4" with a 4th blown sideways 1". Elevation on this out was dead on with the group.
When you shoot a barrel that will group sub 1" at 300m in weather, you have a competitive set up for F class. Now you need to learn how to drive it better.
Over the many decades that shooters have obsessed about accuracy, barrels of every configuration have been tried. Cut or button rifling even hammer forging, gain or standard twists, rifling profiles, contours, lengths, bore diameters, etc, etc, etc.
Pretty much every configuration has shoot well enough to win big competitions BUT no one configuration or maker has dominated over another. No different then bullet manf's.
Sometimes a manf will have a good run and their products will do really well. Then another will try a tweak and be the next best thing. Just like F1, one manf can dominate one season (or many), then end up in the dog house wondering what went wrong - think Ferrari this year.
Stick with a main brands with a solid track record, a dealer that can answer your questions both technical and in load work up, a barrel that will be backed by the manf in case of a problem.
And one that you can get in a reasonable amount of time at a fair price.
The rest is up to the shooter to shoot to the potential of the gear.
At the Farky a few weeks back, the F Open ranks had one of the best fields I have seen. The equipment and shooters were all capable of winning. All shooters approached the task from slightly different angles with gear capable of blowing out the 5 if not the V bull. But the main point was the ability to read the very twitchy winds.
Here Cyan1de was in a league of his own. Bottom line, he figured out the conditions, shot appropriately, and kicked all of our butts. I am sure he would have done the same if he shot a variety of rifles. When you are on, you are on....
The brand of barrel debate will rage forever as shooters are always looking for that magic component to help them win. The truth is that all the top line stuff, installed properly, will get you a winning rig.
Your ability to shoot to the level of the gear under the conditions of the match is what will really separate you from the also rans.
Jerry
Got to go out with my Shilen at 300m in some gusty switchy winds. Tried to get a constant condition, held center and fired. 3rds 3/4" with a 4th blown sideways 1". Elevation on this out was dead on with the group.
When you shoot a barrel that will group sub 1" at 300m in weather, you have a competitive set up for F class. Now you need to learn how to drive it better.
Over the many decades that shooters have obsessed about accuracy, barrels of every configuration have been tried. Cut or button rifling even hammer forging, gain or standard twists, rifling profiles, contours, lengths, bore diameters, etc, etc, etc.
Pretty much every configuration has shoot well enough to win big competitions BUT no one configuration or maker has dominated over another. No different then bullet manf's.
Sometimes a manf will have a good run and their products will do really well. Then another will try a tweak and be the next best thing. Just like F1, one manf can dominate one season (or many), then end up in the dog house wondering what went wrong - think Ferrari this year.
Stick with a main brands with a solid track record, a dealer that can answer your questions both technical and in load work up, a barrel that will be backed by the manf in case of a problem.
And one that you can get in a reasonable amount of time at a fair price.
The rest is up to the shooter to shoot to the potential of the gear.
At the Farky a few weeks back, the F Open ranks had one of the best fields I have seen. The equipment and shooters were all capable of winning. All shooters approached the task from slightly different angles with gear capable of blowing out the 5 if not the V bull. But the main point was the ability to read the very twitchy winds.
Here Cyan1de was in a league of his own. Bottom line, he figured out the conditions, shot appropriately, and kicked all of our butts. I am sure he would have done the same if he shot a variety of rifles. When you are on, you are on....
The brand of barrel debate will rage forever as shooters are always looking for that magic component to help them win. The truth is that all the top line stuff, installed properly, will get you a winning rig.
Your ability to shoot to the level of the gear under the conditions of the match is what will really separate you from the also rans.
Jerry
