Most reliable MilSurp action
- Thread starter Ruger30-06
- Start date
- Location
- Fort Saint John, BC
In terms of what action is the prevailing "king," I believe it's individual choice and with all the comments under this thread, there seems to be some rambling or jousting between Enfield and Mauser. Taking a different perspective, look around nowadays and see what history is kept via what modern day manufacturers are producing as actions in new rifles. With Ruger, for example, the Mauser action is still being produced. Ask yourself, why? Until we see a more modern day action - albeit electro-magnetic - today's manufacturers tend to take the best from history and lay aside the rest.
The Lee action is still very much in production, call Marstar or Wolverine and they'll be glad to sell you one. In rimless .308. Since I've never heard of a Lee action failing to feed or fire (given proper ammunition), and having relatives who used one in every possible environment I'd have to choose the Lee.
PS in case it hasn't been mentioned, it is actually a Lee action, Enfield did the rifling
PS in case it hasn't been mentioned, it is actually a Lee action, Enfield did the rifling
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Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Lee Enfield in .308,does it get any better.
highlander
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Newfoundland
The enfield actions now being sold by Marstar and Wolverine are not new actions but re-worked milsurp actions. I believe that actual "new" actions were last produced in the early 1950's. The 7.62 (308) round came about as NATO's pick for a standard rifle cartridge. The British, (like Canada) tend to hold onto designs of a lot of various things, including guns, until the're long obsolete. In this case. they converted the Lee Enfield rifle to fire the new NATO round. with limited sucess. Eventually, even the Brits hand to give up on this: as bolt action rifles were obsolete on the battlefield and the Enfield action was definately showing it's age and limitations,:and had to go with the FN-FAL rifle.
Sorry for getting so lond winded, but is is an interesting subject.
Sorry for getting so lond winded, but is is an interesting subject.
The AIA enfields are new rifles not reworked actions converted to .308.
The dimensions of the actions are different than older enfields, ie. thicker in many places.
Perhaps are you thinking of the Gibbs rifles? Those are reworked actions.
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Anyone here ever jammed a MN? For absolute reliability, I cannot think of anything better. I've experienced a broken extractor spring in a No. 4 (rifle will still work after a fashion if you tip it on its side so the extractor will catch the rim), and rim-behind-rim jams are easy enough to do in a Lee Enfield. It is possible, on occasion, to take a Mauser out of action by loading a single round into the barrel and slamming the bolt shut. With the lip broken off the extractor, the rifle is pooched until a new one is fitted. Have seen a number of 96s and 98s damaged this way over the years.
Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
AS much as I love the enfield, and tolerate mausers....(just such a clunky bolt compared to enfields...but yeah, its strong, who cares, the enfields never fell apart on fireing, ) the nagent is simple stone age reliable...bleedin' accurate too if you have a good barrell. There where probably 10 of them made for every enfield or 98 during thier military lifespan, and while the rimmed cartridge is obsolete today it gives tremendous purchase for the extractor, not a bad thing in a battle rifle. As for controlled feed, it's an overstated virture. I can cycle both the nagent and enfield upside down reliably, you just cant creep em closed....
thebuckhunter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Eastern Ontario
I voted for the mauser action. Most of todays bolt guns are designed around it. Although one could also say the same about hinge, rolling block and trapdoor actions as well. I'm assuming milsurp also includes WWI? It's hard to mess up a single shot. IMHO.
-Jason
-Jason
What he said. The Mosin has few parts, requires no special tools for disassembly, and is so bloody simple. Having said that, I prefer the way the Enfield action cycles and shoots.
As a battle rifle a reliable action must:
1) be loaded easily without jamming (method at that time was stripper clips)
2) remove a cartridge from the magazine and push it into the chamber without misfeeding,
3) not blow up when you fire it,
4) extract the empty case from the action quickly,
5) do all of the above over and over without breaking parts.
I figure all three rifles do #'s 3, 4, and 5 well enough without one having an advantage over the other. All three rifles (in original military chamberings and conditions) are tough and can take all kinds of abuse before breaking.
I think the area's where the rifles start making a distiction from each other are in #1 and #2 the loading and feeding area's.
Both the Mosin and the Lee use rimmed cartridges and suffer for it. I've found my mosin to be a ##### to load with a stripper clip (and that's with good stripper clips too). But when the magazine is loaded the magazine cut off stops the rimmed cartridges from binding when the cartridge is stripped from the magazine. The Lee action is a bit easier to load (but not much), and if the stripper clip is loaded incorrectly then you can have the dreaded rim jamb.
My vote has to go for the Mauser action, since it uses a rimless cartridge and doesn't have any feeding or loading issues. The stripper clips work as slick as snot and there are no rims, so no rim jambs.
Of course, if it was WW2 and I had a choice of what rifle I was to carry I'd immediately yell GIVE ME THAT LEE ENFIELD, because without a doubt it was the best bolt action battle rifle of WW2
1) be loaded easily without jamming (method at that time was stripper clips)
2) remove a cartridge from the magazine and push it into the chamber without misfeeding,
3) not blow up when you fire it,
4) extract the empty case from the action quickly,
5) do all of the above over and over without breaking parts.
I figure all three rifles do #'s 3, 4, and 5 well enough without one having an advantage over the other. All three rifles (in original military chamberings and conditions) are tough and can take all kinds of abuse before breaking.
I think the area's where the rifles start making a distiction from each other are in #1 and #2 the loading and feeding area's.
Both the Mosin and the Lee use rimmed cartridges and suffer for it. I've found my mosin to be a ##### to load with a stripper clip (and that's with good stripper clips too). But when the magazine is loaded the magazine cut off stops the rimmed cartridges from binding when the cartridge is stripped from the magazine. The Lee action is a bit easier to load (but not much), and if the stripper clip is loaded incorrectly then you can have the dreaded rim jamb.
My vote has to go for the Mauser action, since it uses a rimless cartridge and doesn't have any feeding or loading issues. The stripper clips work as slick as snot and there are no rims, so no rim jambs.
Of course, if it was WW2 and I had a choice of what rifle I was to carry I'd immediately yell GIVE ME THAT LEE ENFIELD, because without a doubt it was the best bolt action battle rifle of WW2
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
OK, a couple of comments;
The Enfield handles gas from a pierced primer better than a mouser.
The enfield is quite strong enough for the cartridge it was chambered for, so saying the mouser is stronger is irrelevant.
The reason there are more mousers is because the germans had a VERY AGRESSIVE sales department, offering to make the mouser in any shape or style the customer wanted.
The enfield was built for the military in government factories, the mouser was built by lots of different firms.
The enfield cocks on closing where the mechanical advantage is grester.
Either rifle will do the job it was intended to do.
If there were real feeding problems with the enfield, hundreds of thousands of germans japs, italians, and many other folks would still be around.
Now the Moisen is certainly simple, but that's all I can say about it. Ergonomicaly it's not all that good.
The Enfield handles gas from a pierced primer better than a mouser.
The enfield is quite strong enough for the cartridge it was chambered for, so saying the mouser is stronger is irrelevant.
The reason there are more mousers is because the germans had a VERY AGRESSIVE sales department, offering to make the mouser in any shape or style the customer wanted.
The enfield was built for the military in government factories, the mouser was built by lots of different firms.
The enfield cocks on closing where the mechanical advantage is grester.
Either rifle will do the job it was intended to do.
If there were real feeding problems with the enfield, hundreds of thousands of germans japs, italians, and many other folks would still be around.
Now the Moisen is certainly simple, but that's all I can say about it. Ergonomicaly it's not all that good.
