Most reliable rifle? SHTF scenario
- Thread starter Greenman
- Start date
Have a lee enfield (no.4 mk1 ....and MINT might I add 
), ammo seems to be kind on the pricy side though, I also claim a ar-180b as my own and loooove it , I like the look of the Ruger . The cz-858 was a nice choice but how is the accuracy ? . Ruger mini 14 or 30 was also on my mind .
As far as what kind of SHTF scenario I am talking big ,I mean like revenue Canada, mother in law ,radioactive flying zombies SHTF scenario
), ammo seems to be kind on the pricy side though, I also claim a ar-180b as my own and loooove it , I like the look of the Ruger . The cz-858 was a nice choice but how is the accuracy ? . Ruger mini 14 or 30 was also on my mind . As far as what kind of SHTF scenario I am talking big ,I mean like revenue Canada, mother in law ,radioactive flying zombies SHTF scenario
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Imho, I think the worst SHTF scenario (for Canada) would be an intense, high altitude, high yield nuclear (emp) attack over North America in the dead of winter, or at it's onset. It would be bloody. I think I'd go with a #5 in that case. Cold won't affect it much.
The thing is I don't think it's likely. Not that I'm saying that Poutine isn't a little on the crazy side. I don't know what would be a 'close' second. I don't think there really is anything that would be close to that. Maybe a general collapse of the banking system; like what happened in Argentina, and that was a for-real SHTF scenario that arguably lasted for several years. Guns were valuable items. I hear people regularly starve to death in Argentina.
The thing is I don't think it's likely. Not that I'm saying that Poutine isn't a little on the crazy side. I don't know what would be a 'close' second. I don't think there really is anything that would be close to that. Maybe a general collapse of the banking system; like what happened in Argentina, and that was a for-real SHTF scenario that arguably lasted for several years. Guns were valuable items. I hear people regularly starve to death in Argentina.
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Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
Enfield all the way...in a SHTF scenario you will want something that you can get ammo and spare parts for...every bushwacker and booniebasher in canada has a bubba'd lee in their closet with a few dusty rounds kicking around...so in a SHTF, Zombies are chasin you A$$ scenario the lee jungle is a nice bet....
but
For me it's the Ruger 10/22...Ammo is even more available than 303...there are lots around in peoples closets for spare parts...and it's plenty powerfull for taking small game and even deer if need be...besides you can carry 1000 rounds with no problem.
but
For me it's the Ruger 10/22...Ammo is even more available than 303...there are lots around in peoples closets for spare parts...and it's plenty powerfull for taking small game and even deer if need be...besides you can carry 1000 rounds with no problem.
- Location
- Colorado Springs, CO
M1A, like having the knockdown, plus 308 is as common as 22 LR around here. Les
For SHTF, there's really no need for a rifle capable of shooting things from miles away. When people want to steal your TV or your food, they don't put up a banner saying: I'm coming, get your rifle out", as soon as they leave home; rather, they wait till you're fumbling with your keys at the door with an arm full of groceries and stab you in the kidneys with their shank. That's why I'd pick any sort of carbine. Probably a nice short semi-action .22LR. Most common cartridge in the world, plenty enough punch to kill small game for food.
On the other hand, if you were the bad guy trying to kill other people, then sure, keep your 30 cal sniper rifle, pick your neighbour off 2 blocks over, and before his wife gets home, kick down his door and steal his stereo.
On the other hand, if you were the bad guy trying to kill other people, then sure, keep your 30 cal sniper rifle, pick your neighbour off 2 blocks over, and before his wife gets home, kick down his door and steal his stereo.
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NAA said:Lee-Enfield... probably some kinda No. 4....
Or Win '94 in .30-30 with double bandoleers of ctgs, Mexican bandido style...
+2 on the 30/30 Winchester.
Easy to pack, easy to use, and great for close quarter fighting.
cancer said:
That is very true - it all depends on the terrain and the situation. In a city, you do not need a long range rifle. 22LR will do nicely. But if you are planning to get engaged in an open - then the guy with longer range has an advantage. In both cases you want to stick with a common and cheap round.
I can not believe nobody has mentioned SKS yet. I vote for an SKS - tones of spare parts, cheap round, long enough range and short enough rifle. Reliable, cheap and accurate enough Not to mention the reliability. The way I see it - it was meant for SHTF. So ideally I would have a 22LR pistol and an SKS. And a knife too - something you can sharpen without a diamond sharpener.
- Location
- Colorado Springs, CO
Okay, you want to go that route, I would have to say Mini 14, as so many government agencys state side and up in Canada use 5.56 as a primary caliber. Pick up ammo as I head to the High country, plus I have about 400 rds on hand. Scuse me while I get my tinfoil hat now, you never know who may be readiing your thoughts. Les
Les
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
'Corralito'
I was wrong. Apparently the situation is raging unabated. Interesting it's not even on the radar screen here in Canada
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2242/is_1668_286/ai_n14709975
Argentina's soaring crime rate
Contemporary Review, Jan, 2005 by Jorge San Pedro
THESE days Argentines not only have to cope with their economic malaise but also what they see as its most worrying by-product: a violent crime wave that has swept the country and encouraged some to take the law into their own hands.
The problem is not confined to big cities. In early March the mayor of Villarino, a little-known rural district lying 700 km south of the capital Buenos Aires, found much sympathy when he declared he would stand by those who shoot criminal intruders.
Mario Ahumada, a 61-year-old Villarino landowner echoed the mayor: 'If I see a stranger on my land, I'll shoot him', he declared. And the Villarino Cattle Breeders' Association admitted that its members had been organising armed night patrols since mid-2002, when the economic crisis was hitting hard.
Argentina's economic crisis forced President Fernando de la Rua to resign in December 2001 amid street protests, triggered by severe recession, high unemployment and a general bank account freeze that turned even his middle-class supporters against him. The economy worsened in 2002 when a financial arrangement that had kept the peso pegged to the US dollar at a rate of one-to-one since 1991 was abandoned, and the exchange rate soon reached the three pesos per dollar mark.
Most citizens blame the worsening crime wave on the financial crisis. But a recent academic paper by Diego Gorgal, lecturer at the Buenos Aires-based Argentine Catholic University, says the seeds of the current problems date back further--to social changes that followed IMF-backed structural adjustment policies introduced between 1990 and 1993.
'The qualitative transformation came hand-in-hand with new conditions in the labour market, the dismantling of the welfare system and, moreover, the development of an informal and, in most cases, criminal economy that took advantage of a retreating state', says Gorgal.
Government statistics show that crime fell 73 per cent between 1988 and 1992 in Buenos Aires but rose 286 per cent between 1992 and 1995. In 1995 the former President, Carlos Menem had been re-elected amid international praise for achieving low inflation, privatising state-run companies and the currency peg. Argentina, Menem liked to boast, had become part of the First World.
By contrast to the sharp rise in the early 1990s, between 1999 and 2002 the crime rate only grew 5.25 per cent. 'It had grown so wildly that levelling off was the most likely outcome', says Hernan Olaeta, an adviser at the Justice Ministry.
Gorgal says spiralling crime rates can be found across the region. 'Latin America is currently the world's most violent area, measured by its homicide rate', he explains.
Hector Recalde, an expert in labour law who advises trade unions, has no doubt about the link between the 1990s economic changes and increasing crime. He shows a chart representing the official unemployment, poverty and crime rates--the upward trend of the three curves almost exactly match.
Argentina's undersecretary for criminal policies Mario Ciafardini admits 'there is a strong positive correlation between extreme poverty and the crime rate', but rejects the idea that people in poverty turn to crime, saying probably a mere one per cent take up crime.
Nevertheless, the starkest face of Argentina's worsening poverty is found in the Buenos Aires' slums, which grew by 114 per cent in the 1990s to 113,000 people. Slums lack the most basic public services, including law enforcement, and have become safe havens for criminal activities.
Elena, a 27-year-old single mother who lives in La Cava, the capital's largest slum, says: 'Sometimes you become very depressed. This is not a place to raise two children, but for the time being I have no choice because moving out is too expensive. I can't stand the drug dealers anymore and I can't stand the fact that the last thing my children hear before falling asleep every night is gun shots'.
Jorge Garcia Cuerva, a Catholic priest in La Cava says: 'The economic situation has created conditions for arms and drug trafficking to flourish. But these are businesses run for people who don't live here. People here are the victims. There is fear but mainly there is anger, because people here really want a better quality of life'. A survey by the economic think-tank Union for a New Majority shows that 40 per cent of poor are victims of crime as against 12 per cent of the middle-class.
The economic changes in the early 1990s created boom years for some, and the country's Gross Domestic Product grew 42 per cent between 1991 and 1998. But the income gap also grew. In 1991 the richest 10 per cent earned 19 times more than the poorest 10 per cent; by 1998 the disparity was 28 times higher.
At the same time the economic changes--privatisation of state companies and deregulation of the labour market to make it easier for companies to hire and fire staff--did not create the anticipated new jobs and Argentina's economic implosion at the end of 2001 made the picture worse.
'Latin America is currently the world's most violent area, measured by its homicide rate'
Interesting, with all the media hoopla, you would have thought it was in the sandbox.
To get back on topic, the idea about a 10/22 seems good. 25 round burst should do at close range.
I was wrong. Apparently the situation is raging unabated. Interesting it's not even on the radar screen here in Canada
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2242/is_1668_286/ai_n14709975
Argentina's soaring crime rate
Contemporary Review, Jan, 2005 by Jorge San Pedro
THESE days Argentines not only have to cope with their economic malaise but also what they see as its most worrying by-product: a violent crime wave that has swept the country and encouraged some to take the law into their own hands.
The problem is not confined to big cities. In early March the mayor of Villarino, a little-known rural district lying 700 km south of the capital Buenos Aires, found much sympathy when he declared he would stand by those who shoot criminal intruders.
Mario Ahumada, a 61-year-old Villarino landowner echoed the mayor: 'If I see a stranger on my land, I'll shoot him', he declared. And the Villarino Cattle Breeders' Association admitted that its members had been organising armed night patrols since mid-2002, when the economic crisis was hitting hard.
Argentina's economic crisis forced President Fernando de la Rua to resign in December 2001 amid street protests, triggered by severe recession, high unemployment and a general bank account freeze that turned even his middle-class supporters against him. The economy worsened in 2002 when a financial arrangement that had kept the peso pegged to the US dollar at a rate of one-to-one since 1991 was abandoned, and the exchange rate soon reached the three pesos per dollar mark.
Most citizens blame the worsening crime wave on the financial crisis. But a recent academic paper by Diego Gorgal, lecturer at the Buenos Aires-based Argentine Catholic University, says the seeds of the current problems date back further--to social changes that followed IMF-backed structural adjustment policies introduced between 1990 and 1993.
'The qualitative transformation came hand-in-hand with new conditions in the labour market, the dismantling of the welfare system and, moreover, the development of an informal and, in most cases, criminal economy that took advantage of a retreating state', says Gorgal.
Government statistics show that crime fell 73 per cent between 1988 and 1992 in Buenos Aires but rose 286 per cent between 1992 and 1995. In 1995 the former President, Carlos Menem had been re-elected amid international praise for achieving low inflation, privatising state-run companies and the currency peg. Argentina, Menem liked to boast, had become part of the First World.
By contrast to the sharp rise in the early 1990s, between 1999 and 2002 the crime rate only grew 5.25 per cent. 'It had grown so wildly that levelling off was the most likely outcome', says Hernan Olaeta, an adviser at the Justice Ministry.
Gorgal says spiralling crime rates can be found across the region. 'Latin America is currently the world's most violent area, measured by its homicide rate', he explains.
Hector Recalde, an expert in labour law who advises trade unions, has no doubt about the link between the 1990s economic changes and increasing crime. He shows a chart representing the official unemployment, poverty and crime rates--the upward trend of the three curves almost exactly match.
Argentina's undersecretary for criminal policies Mario Ciafardini admits 'there is a strong positive correlation between extreme poverty and the crime rate', but rejects the idea that people in poverty turn to crime, saying probably a mere one per cent take up crime.
Nevertheless, the starkest face of Argentina's worsening poverty is found in the Buenos Aires' slums, which grew by 114 per cent in the 1990s to 113,000 people. Slums lack the most basic public services, including law enforcement, and have become safe havens for criminal activities.
Elena, a 27-year-old single mother who lives in La Cava, the capital's largest slum, says: 'Sometimes you become very depressed. This is not a place to raise two children, but for the time being I have no choice because moving out is too expensive. I can't stand the drug dealers anymore and I can't stand the fact that the last thing my children hear before falling asleep every night is gun shots'.
Jorge Garcia Cuerva, a Catholic priest in La Cava says: 'The economic situation has created conditions for arms and drug trafficking to flourish. But these are businesses run for people who don't live here. People here are the victims. There is fear but mainly there is anger, because people here really want a better quality of life'. A survey by the economic think-tank Union for a New Majority shows that 40 per cent of poor are victims of crime as against 12 per cent of the middle-class.
The economic changes in the early 1990s created boom years for some, and the country's Gross Domestic Product grew 42 per cent between 1991 and 1998. But the income gap also grew. In 1991 the richest 10 per cent earned 19 times more than the poorest 10 per cent; by 1998 the disparity was 28 times higher.
At the same time the economic changes--privatisation of state companies and deregulation of the labour market to make it easier for companies to hire and fire staff--did not create the anticipated new jobs and Argentina's economic implosion at the end of 2001 made the picture worse.
'Latin America is currently the world's most violent area, measured by its homicide rate'
Interesting, with all the media hoopla, you would have thought it was in the sandbox.
To get back on topic, the idea about a 10/22 seems good. 25 round burst should do at close range.
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