Motiuk Prototype #2: 5.45x39mm Bolt Action Rifle

zupermann said:
We'll need a steady ammo source for it to fly. Good on you ya'all for putting it together.
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Hornady, and Tulammo are currently available. Marstar also said that they have the ability to bring in cheap surplus 5.45x39.


mardig88 said:
any info on the pricing?
Goood looking rifle
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Nothing firm on pricing, but should be below $1000


8 ball said:
How does the 5.45x39 swap out to the 5.56 and 300 BLK with only a barrel change? The case head dimensions on the 5.45 are larger than the other calibers mentioned.
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You are correct. The 5.56 and 300blk only need a barrel swap, but the 5.45 will also need a bolt face and firing pin swap. (takes approx. 5min)


TRich said:
Would make a nice little varmint/target rifle... Any chance of high mag capacities? Regardless I would be down for one with a .300 blackout conversion too
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No higher capacity mags at this time, but are planned in the future.


boss351cleveland said:
Not sure i would want to fire corrosive surplus 5.45 through that rifle anyway but Tula and Wolf both make pretty cheap 5.45 i would like to see some accuracy results with some cheap Tula ammo , none is listed on their Canadian site for sale but i guess they dont bring it in cause nobody really has rifles chambered in that cartridge ..
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Firing corrosive shouldn't be a problem, as the barrel is nitrocarburized.
 
Honestly, I think 5.45 is pretty small niche market. It's directly comparable to .223 and only makes sense if the cheap surplus is used. In a target rifle, there's not going to be a lot of savings.

Unless the surplus comes in for $200/1000 or less, the economics don't make sense. It's a "hey, look what I've got piece" mostly.
 
well if it comes out in 5.45,
then surplus ammo will come,
then AR-15 conversions will come for 5.45(ammo cheaper than 5.56 since there is no more Chinese surplus)
other black-rifle conversions will come out, as well as dedicated 5.45 rifles

so the market might be small, but it will get bigger. just like anything else
 
Stevo said:
Honestly, I think 5.45 is pretty small niche market. It's directly comparable to .223 and only makes sense if the cheap surplus is used. In a target rifle, there's not going to be a lot of savings.

Unless the surplus comes in for $200/1000 or less, the economics don't make sense. It's a "hey, look what I've got piece" mostly.
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It comes in cases of 2080 so in theory if the price is the same per case as what we are seing then 200-250 for 2080 is awesome.
 
Not to take away from the build but all I see here is a re-barrelled Savage Axis in a Boyds stock, no?

And why 5.45?

7.62 x 39 is already so plentiful, and a better calibre to double as a deer gun.

Even the 300 BLK is a little more appealing option but only for a reloader.
 
Sounds like a neat project for sure, however, unless there's more rifles on the market than your's then there's no reason for Marstar to bring in any quantity of 5.45x39mm ammunition. Basically, it'll take a large importer like Marstar to bring rifles (Maybe Norinco? JW 105?) and ammo to Canada just to have the potential for market acceptance.

If the ammo is cheap enough, people will buy guns to shoot it. That's where you're likely to see any demand for your product in this cartridge.
 
I'd buy one to use as a hunting rig. Then again, I don't really GAF if my hunting rigs are in oddball calibers as they get limited use. I have other guns in standard calibers that come out on high volume days. 100ish rounds a year is all that my hunting rigs ever see. Most of them much less.
 
Stevebot-7 said:
Would these be made by Motiuk in house, or farmed out? Controlled Round Feed or Push Feed? What type of magazines would be used, a short and handy 300 blackout gun with 10 round mags would be great fun. What sort of price point and estimated delivery?
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Too early on to give concrete details. This was mostly just posted to guage interest in a 5.45x39mm bolt gun.


Stevo said:
Honestly, I think 5.45 is pretty small niche market. It's directly comparable to .223 and only makes sense if the cheap surplus is used. In a target rifle, there's not going to be a lot of savings.

Unless the surplus comes in for $200/1000 or less, the economics don't make sense. It's a "hey, look what I've got piece" mostly.
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Hornady 5.45 is about half the cost of Hornady .223 right now. Also, 7n6 surplus was selling for under $0.10/rnd not too long ago.


mlehtovaara said:
Not to take away from the build but all I see here is a re-barrelled Savage Axis in a Boyds stock, no?

And why 5.45?

7.62 x 39 is already so plentiful, and a better calibre to double as a deer gun.

Even the 300 BLK is a little more appealing option but only for a reloader.
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Quite a bit more to it than that. And the biggest reason for using 5.45 is the low cost of ammo. Similar ballistics of .223, but half the cost.
 
a 7.62x39 would be nice,,,could bring the bolt gun and the SKS and have a great cheap day at the range,,,,anyone know where i can find a bolt gun in 7.62x39???,,that's AVAILABLE,,,i've been looking for a long time,,,the Norincos are long gone,,,and everything else is pretty high priced,,,or maybe something that could be re-barrelled or re-chambered???,,any ideas would be appreciated.
 
Motiuk Mfg. said:
Too early on to give concrete details. This was mostly just posted to guage interest in a 5.45x39mm bolt gun.

Quite a bit more to it than that. And the biggest reason for using 5.45 is the low cost of ammo. Similar ballistics of .223, but half the cost.
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Not sure where you're coming up with the 1/2 the cost of .223 angle. If you look at Wolverine Supplies and SFRC both of those companies have 5.45x39mm Hornady steel cased ammo at approx. $23/(50 rds.) That's still significantly more expensive than either surplus or commercially available Federal .223 among others.
 
mlehtovaara said:
I'd love to know what exactly else there is to it. I guess the bolt head might need some milling but I can have any number of gunsmiths build one any time for the same price your wanting to sell these at.

For a .300 BLK there is nothing to it. A .223 Stevens, or Axis, and a simple barrel swap, and your good.

Sorry, I am done. I don't want to rain on your parade, but I can't see any innovation here..
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There'll be slightly more to it than just a barrel swap for the .300 Blackout. Both Savage and Remington rifles have had reliability issues ejecting the smaller case ith standard .223 Rem. bolts and need help in this area to be 100% reliable. Savages normally involve a different detent ball and spring if I'm not mistaken and Remington's usually have more positive ejection with the use of a .17/.221 FB based ejector/extractor. Other actions like Tikka's and Howa 1500/Weatherby Vanguard have little to no reported issues.
 
2bad4u2 said:
Not sure where you're coming up with the 1/2 the cost of .223 angle. If you look at Wolverine Supplies and SFRC both of those companies have 5.45x39mm Hornady steel cased ammo at approx. $23/(50 rds.) That's still significantly more expensive than either surplus or commercially available Federal .223 among others.
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Apples to apples (relatively speaking). Using SFRC as a the source, .223 Hornady V-Max is about $1.00/rnd while 5.45x39 Hornady V-Max is about $0.50/rnd. Also surplus (norinco) 5.56/223 is about $0.26/rnd, while surplus 5.45x39 is about $0.14/rnd. Again, approximately half the cost.


mlehtovaara said:
I'd love to know what exactly else there is to it. I guess the bolt head might need some milling but I can have any number of gunsmiths build one any time for the same price your wanting to sell these at.

For a .300 BLK there is nothing to it. A .223 Stevens, or Axis, and a simple barrel swap, and your good.

Sorry, I am done. I don't want to rain on your parade, but I can't see any innovation here..
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A one-off rifle is quite different than a production rifle. And the cost would be quite different as well. Additionally, there is a huge time difference from buying a rifle off the shelf vs. waiting for a gunsmith to finish your custom build.

No innovation was ever claimed. Since the Mauser action, there really isn't much room left for innovation in a bolt action design. This thread was started to gauge interest for a 5.45x39mm bolt gun. We have a 5.45x39mm bolt gun that works and shoots well. As far as I know, it is the only non-prohibited 5.45x39mm gun in Canada at the moment.
 
2bad4u2 said:
Ok, I'll bite. Where are you getting 5.45x39mm surplus for that kind of price?
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Just using AIM in the US as a comparison. At the moment there is no surplus 5.45 source in Canada, but the price should be pretty comparable to the US.
 
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