300Spartans
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Canada of course
Same here. It's got a great smell to it. When I clean the gun in the shop, my kid likes to comment on how it smells like gingerbread.
Motor Oil for Small Arms Lubricant
- Thread starter LTR308
- Start date
Same here. It's got a great smell to it. When I clean the gun in the shop, my kid likes to comment on how it smells like gingerbread.
Apparantly you take this very seriously....I was just adding the 2-cents off the top off my head, the way I veiwed the idea. I am by no means a chemist, however I tryed to make a valid comparison in applying engine oil to metal, as we see in the internal effect on a diesel engine.
My credentials are nothing more than years as a Caterpillar heavy duty certified engine technician (having completed a yearly "failure- Analisys"course), and conducting internal dealer engine training as a Certified Instructor.
The facts that you speak of are true. Sulfur is the key ingredient of creating the acidic effect I spoke of. As far as backing up my statements of condensation forming due to low engine temperature, I must say, you need to read a book if you disagree.
Here are the facts...
-Hydrocloric acid IS formed when oil, metal, (primer salts or fouled barrel), and condensation are mixed. Again, if you dont like it, read a book.
-Do I run my gun on low sulphur diesel? Dont be fecisious...think about other elements in the equation, and keep in mind I added my 2-cents as a precautionary bit of science. It likely wont hurt anything, but why not use the proper poduct for the proper job?
Have you seen an engine oil pan rot from the inside out and wonder how is that possible when the pan is coated with oil at all times? Hydrochloric acid.
Where do the Acids come from on a gun? Primer salts or corrosive powders. You say there are no diffences between engine oil and gun oil?....again, do a little reading. CJ-4 rated oils have additives designed to deal with high soot levels and EGR systems......detergent oils, non-detergent oils, mineral based, synthetics...if you think they are all the same, and they all have the same properties as Gun oil, again, read a book
My daughter thinks Hoppe's #9 is bananas
That's because it's varsol mixed with synthetic banana oil.
Grease for slide rails for sure in the Summer, oil in the winter. Motor oil works fine, but stinks like hell. Transmission fluid works well too and doesn't smell as bad. Synthetic is better still
I mixed some synthetic (miltec gun oil) into some Shell (pink) synthetic grease and now have pink synthetic snot that I use extensively. It stays on slides but doesn't slow things down appreciably when its cold. The mix stays consistent too, but perhaps thats only a surprise to me
.So now it is corrosive ammo, primer salts etc? Not quite what you originally said. But OK. It seems that the past week or two all I have been doing for my job is correcting one "wives tale" after another, so sorry if it has spilled over to this forum.
Note that I never said that condensation isn't created in an engine, and know very well that condensation IS created, and specifically mentioned that water is a byproduct of burning fossil fuels.
And yes, I have seen the inside of engines corroded from water/acid, but as I mentioned, (just a point of correctness) it is sulfuric acid, not hydrochloric acid.
And most oils ARE created equal, non-detergent, means just that, no detergent added. What do you think mineral oil is? Oil squeezed from rocks? (it is a product/byproduct of distillation of oil)
There are generally 5 base stocks that ALL oils are derived from (numbered I to V), even synthetics and "mineral oils" are derived from these stocks. Did you also know that there are only a couple companies that make up the additive packages for all the oil companies?
And yes, I know exactly what is in CJ-4 oil and why, but since we don't have any diesels that have particulate traps, we use CI-4 plus oil, one reason is price of CI-4 Plus full synthetic ($22/gallon) and another is that CI-4 oil has a much greater capacity to neutralize acids (some of our vehicles/equipment sit for a while), so it should also be the preferred gun oil over CJ-4
As for that book, I have read/studied/used all of the above for many years (except the CI-4/CJ-4 stuff which is more recent)
Oh and BTW, there is really no such thing as corrosive powders (we are not talking about black powder here, or are we?). The only way a smokeless powder could be corrosive is if they screwed up the manufacturing process and didn't neutralize all the nitric acid used in manufacture. That is what happens when powder "goes bad", the nitric acid continues to degrade the cellulose and binders.
Back to the original question, there is NO PROBLEM with using engine oil as gun oil, and in fact, many engine oils are better than some gun oils, specifically because of the additive packages. Some gun oils don't even have good anti-corrosion properties, such as FP-10, which is a great lubricating oil, however I no longer use it, and use syntetic engine oil instead. For anti corrosion properties, not much beats EEZOX. (I have done my own testing on dozens of different products.)
Some gun oils might be better in specific areas, such as creep/penetrating ability, or because of various additional detergent additives to deal with carbon buildup etc, but since a gun is a low stress environment for oil, it doesn't make that much difference in the end.
I respect your knowlege, and we are a little off topic, BUT... Hydrochloric Acid IS the damaging byproduct. I will try to find the proper literature to either discount or prove this, however, this IS taught thruout the industry.
Not to discount the effects of sulfuric acid.
I found a reference to hydrochloric acid, and it is relevent to use on guns also.
The majority of aftermarket oil additives contain chlorinated paraffins. Now paraffins make up the bulk of diesel fuel and are not a problem.. But the oil additives have a chlorinated paraffin, which are used as a lubricant. Chlorinated paraffins are also used in many metal working cutting fluids
It is the chlorinated part that will break down, combine with water, and form hydrochloric acid.
So it is advisable NOT to use oil additives on your guns.
Why use engine oil or even transmission oil, on your guns, when "Rem Oil" is inexpensive and available at Canadian Tire? It's the gun oil in the orange/red pastic bottle.
I don't use gun oil in my truck and don't use truck oil in my guns. My truck runs good and so do my guns. And no blackened, punky wood on my gun stocks either.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Rod
I don't use gun oil in my truck and don't use truck oil in my guns. My truck runs good and so do my guns. And no blackened, punky wood on my gun stocks either.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Rod
at school in our machine shop we use varsol and motor oil as cutting fluids unless were cutting very hard steel then we use special stuff(cant tell you what it is) i dont know much about the make up of oils and lubes but i just use the cheap canadian tire gun loob it seems to work fine, but the one time I forgot to oil it up after done shooting it rusted in about 2 days now the bolt and even the handle on it is a little rusted (its a rifle by the way). but what is the final consensus here is motor oil okay to use or should i just stick with the cheap gun oil. the g-96 sounds good.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
Anyone try Corrosion X?
I read about this product and will try to find in local stores. If none, I'll just order from the U.S.
http://corrosionxproducts.com/cxforgunspage.htm
I read about this product and will try to find in local stores. If none, I'll just order from the U.S.
http://corrosionxproducts.com/cxforgunspage.htm
Consensus (IMHO):
Gun oil is cheep, and full of additives specific to protecting a fire-arm in its application.
Engine oil is cheap too, but (possibly, depending on the brand "high milage engine oil" etc), contains chlorine additives that can be harmfull to metal and finishes where the firearm is stored in a higher humidity area.
Completely stay away from "Lucas", "Slick 50", or any of these types of fluids as they contain "chlorine", and that combined with humidity or condensation, will cause corrosion to your gun.
These are the facts, draw your conclusion
Gun oil is cheep, and full of additives specific to protecting a fire-arm in its application.
Engine oil is cheap too, but (possibly, depending on the brand "high milage engine oil" etc), contains chlorine additives that can be harmfull to metal and finishes where the firearm is stored in a higher humidity area.
Completely stay away from "Lucas", "Slick 50", or any of these types of fluids as they contain "chlorine", and that combined with humidity or condensation, will cause corrosion to your gun.
These are the facts, draw your conclusion
Corrosion X is a superb product for corrosion resistance. Almost as good as EEZOX. However, their primary function is not lubrication, but as an anti corrosive coating, with lubrication secondary.
I use EEZOX but add some oil for better lubrication. The oil has a much thicker film than EEZOX or Corrosion X.
Absolutely true to stay away from the Lucas, STP, and other oil additives.
Engine oils might contain a chlorinated paraffins but in extremely small quantities, it is the aftermarket additives that contain a lot these compounds.
The best test is to see how they actually preform in corrosion tests. See these links.
http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=47910
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion.html
And commentary with some of the above links repeated
http://www.shootersolutions.com/webrusttests.html
My favorite products are
- EEZOX
- Fluid Film
- Synthetic motor oil (Used to use FP10 but the engine oil is cheaper)
The best lubrication yet i found was a product called "moovit". I used it on everything from small low temperature applications to giant babbit bearings in mills with an incredible amount of pressure. Its works better than every oil/greese I've tried. It's not a WHIMIS controlled product, so its not harmful to yourself and the environment. At higher temperatures (135c) greese drops and becomes a fluid and will crystalize and foul. Oils work better beyond this point. Mind certain types of EP additives which can contain phosphorus, sulphur, lead soaps, etc. As your firearm heats up harmful vapours can enter your lungs. It's all about ambient and maximum operating temperatures. I've fired everything from heavy machine guns belt after belt to small pistols. from -50 to + 40. All i can say from my experience is that over lubricating is big "no no". Being cheap...well, who cares. Whats your health worth to you. I was lubricating with CLP(break free) for years...and it full of harmful stuff.
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