Mounting Difficulties (cont.)

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Mystic Precision

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Rohann, if any part of your optics mounting system is perceived to be fragile, get rid of it.

All quality parts can be very well tightened and feel solid. I assume you have the leupold base and rings. You can heave on these strongly. You have to because that is the only thing holding that scope in place. Don't like this system at all. One very prominent place that can fail as you have found out.

Go with Weaver bases and some Burris rings. Problems solved.

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
Rohann, if any part of your optics mounting system is perceived to be fragile, get rid of it.

All quality parts can be very well tightened and feel solid. I assume you have the leupold base and rings. You can heave on these strongly. You have to because that is the only thing holding that scope in place. Don't like this system at all. One very prominent place that can fail as you have found out.

Go with Weaver bases and some Burris rings. Problems solved.

Jerry
Click to expand...
It's definately a sturdy system, I'm just thinking I didn't tighten it enough. I have a +20MOA Warne base with TPS rings. Actually, when I noticed the scope was rattling (the bolts on the lower rings were completely loose) the POI only shifted left about 4 inches. I was just scared to tighten it too much, which is why I just did it by hand.

-Rohann
 
I mount them tight 65"LBS AND LOCKTIGHT!!!too the base that is


Jamie
 
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Rohann said:
No the base is totally fine, the guy who mounted it did it with locktight. It's just the lower rings that were getting wobbly.

-Rohann
Click to expand...
TPS rings are fine for putting a little loving tightness to. they are built solid.
ifthey still loosen up try putting some blue *medium strentgh* loctite on em
 
The usual recommended practice is when the base is installed there is loctite applied to the bottom of the base and the mounting screws.

Once base is securely installed, the rings are installed and torqued to 65 inch pounds. *****(Don't use a beam style torque wrench)***** They are very inaccurate and can apply way to much torque. If the rings are torqued properly, they shouldn't need loctite or guntite. If you do apply any, make sure its just a small amount.

If your going to re-install you rings, take your scope off, then re-assemble. If you have difficulties with this, seek the aid of someone with experience and the proper tools so you don't bugger up your nice expensive scope.

When removing rings (expecially if they were lapped) you need to keep the front ring the front ring, the back ring the back ring, etc. The same applies to the caps. Make sure they are all re-installed in the same orientation.

Good luck!
 
Blackcloud said:
The usual recommended practice is when the base is installed there is loctite applied to the bottom of the base and the mounting screws.

Once base is securely installed, the rings are installed and torqued to 65 inch pounds. *****(Don't use a beam style torque wrench)***** They are very inaccurate and can apply way to much torque. If the rings are torqued properly, they shouldn't need loctite or guntite. If you do apply any, make sure its just a small amount.

If your going to re-install you rings, take your scope off, then re-assemble. If you have difficulties with this, seek the aid of someone with experience and the proper tools so you don't bugger up your nice expensive scope.

When removing rings (expecially if they were lapped) you need to keep the front ring the front ring, the back ring the back ring, etc. The same applies to the caps. Make sure they are all re-installed in the same orientation.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
The base was locktighted as you mentioned, but I'm not sure if I want to locktight the lower rings. I don't plan on re-mounting them, but just in case I have to take them off at some point, will I be able to get them off even if they're locktight-ed? Also, if I torque to 65inch/lbs, should it stay that way?
And I should take off the scope before tightening the lower rings?

Thanks,
-Rohann
 
I've never personally had rings loosen off the base when properly torqued, on my own guns or at work. Ask around or check with your dealer or manufacture, generally the manufactures recommend that when you get new rings, dismantel and clean with alcohol or a solvent to get rid of the oil applied after they were made, then assemble as per specs.

Yes, if your going to tighten your lower rings onto the base, remove the scope. As you tighten the lower ring, do so first by hand and make sure you get the slack out the ring and base (so it doesn't wiggle), then torque to 65 inch pounds. Once both bottom parts of the rings are installed gently set your scope in the lower rings to ensure they are aligned properly. The rings must be put back on the way they were previously, I say this to address the fact that depending on the manufacture, in your case TPS does require the ring to be intalled on the base with a specific orientation, as do they if your dealer/gunsmith lapped the rings when you purchased the set-up. Normally once the lower rings are in place, a lapping bar is set in the ensure they are alligned and will not damage the scope tube when the scope is installed and the caps tightened.

When installing the caps, they are to be tightened to 15 inch pounds. This can be done with a torque wrench as well. The caps should be tightened in a machinist pattern with the exception of TPS who recommends securing the left side completely first, then the right as they are designed to have a slight gap on the right side between the caps and ring base.

If you have any doubts call HWSNBN, as he was your dealer as I recall. He can run you through how to go about setting it back up.

Good luck getting things back up and running :D


Rohann said:
The base was locktighted as you mentioned, but I'm not sure if I want to locktight the lower rings. I don't plan on re-mounting them, but just in case I have to take them off at some point, will I be able to get them off even if they're locktight-ed? Also, if I torque to 65inch/lbs, should it stay that way?
And I should take off the scope before tightening the lower rings?

Thanks,
-Rohann
Click to expand...
 
Blackcloud said:
I've never personally had rings loosen off the base when properly torqued, on my own guns or at work. Ask around or check with your dealer or manufacture, generally the manufactures recommend that when you get new rings, dismantel and clean with alcohol or a solvent to get rid of the oil applied after they were made, then assemble as per specs.

Yes, if your going to tighten your lower rings onto the base, remove the scope. As you tighten the lower ring, do so first by hand and make sure you get the slack out the ring and base (so it doesn't wiggle), then torque to 65 inch pounds. Once both bottom parts of the rings are installed gently set your scope in the lower rings to ensure they are aligned properly. The rings must be put back on the way they were previously, I say this to address the fact that depending on the manufacture, in your case TPS does require the ring to be intalled on the base with a specific orientation, as do they if your dealer/gunsmith lapped the rings when you purchased the set-up. Normally once the lower rings are in place, a lapping bar is set in the ensure they are alligned and will not damage the scope tube when the scope is installed and the caps tightened.

When installing the caps, they are to be tightened to 15 inch pounds. This can be done with a torque wrench as well. The caps should be tightened in a machinist pattern with the exception of TPS who recommends securing the left side completely first, then the right as they are designed to have a slight gap on the right side between the caps and ring base.

If you have any doubts call HWSNBN, as he was your dealer as I recall. He can run you through how to go about setting it back up.

Good luck getting things back up and running :D
Click to expand...
Thanks for the help!
I'm not entirely sure it was the rings' fault; I mainly tightened the bolts by hand, so I think it was my doing. I'll try and re-mount the scope as you mentioned, and I'm pretty sure a guy I know has a torque wrench, so I'll see if I can get ahold of that.
Thanks a lot for the reply, it's a really big help. I'll post here again after I've got the scope re-setup, and let you know how it went.

-Rohann
 
Jamie said:
Ok guy lets try to keep on topic..Rohann just start a topic in gunsmithing

Round two targets are ready to go

Please PM me your email address again I lost most of the email addresses in a cleanup...sorry

rules for round two are

10rounds at 100 yards/meters
sitting postion slings are allowed rests are not
no time limit

Jamie
Click to expand...
Sorry about that, will do. I'll hopefully be able to shoot this one this time; hopefully I get my sling before then.

Edit: Jamie, is there any way to move the mounting related posts to a different thread? There's a lot of good info in there. Started a new thread here: http://canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147174

-Rohann
 
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(Continued from http://canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146969, and http://canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132805&page=8)
Hi all,
Well I've been having some difficulties mounting my scope onto my TPS rings onto my 700P.
A while back I had higher rings, and got the scope mounted at Gone Fishing. TPS recommends to torque the lower ring bolts to 65in/lbs, and the upper ring caps to 15. The guy at Gone Fishing did it completely by hand, and the rifle functioned fine. A few weeks ago I dismounted the scope to send the rings back in exchange for lower ones. After I received them, I re-mounted the scope myself, and went out shooting. At the range, after about 30 or so rounds the lower ring bolts came loose. I noticed the scope was rattling and the POI shifted left about 3".
I was recommended by Blackcloud to remove the scope completely before re-tightening the bolts, which I did, but am slightly worried; I was told I don't really need a torque wrench (I don't have one, and the one I bought wasn't decent), but I'm worried that I might overtighten the bolts or the caps. As far as I know, it was my fault that the bolts were loose; I don't believe I tightened them enough, as they function fine now.
Upon taking off the scope, I noticed this:
IMG_1626.jpg

IMG_1625.jpg

IMG_1627.jpg


:bangHead:I was worried at first as I thought I had tightened the rings too much, but I think it was to do with my being obsessive and trying to mount the scope perfectly horizontally, which resulted in my canting the scope quite a bit. Strangely, some of the markings seemed to come off the scope.

So: What should I do as far as mounting goes? Should I go get it mounted by a gunsmith? Is a torque wrench necessary for tightening the bolts (should I use Loc-Tite instead)? Also, do those look like markings from pressure or from shifting it inside the rings too much? Did I damage the scope at all? Are the rings still okay to use, even with the excessive scratching on them?

Thanks in advance (sorry for the long thread),

-Rohann
 
Rohann,
Looks like the Rings need to be lapped (carefully and lightly) for an even surface to surface contact. Caution: do not lap excessivley as this will cause
oversizing of the rings. I have seen this before and was quite surprised how some, even top quality rings, have poor surface contact with scopes.
I don't think that the scope is damaged as there are no indents in it, just wear on the finish.
65 in/lbs and 15in/lbs is actually not as much torque as one would belief.
What I'am saying is that hand tightening them can be done once you get the
feel of what these values feel like.
Just my opinion.
Cheers,
Wolfgang.
 
Do the rings need to be lapped, or can I re-mount the scope as is? And the wearing off of the finish of the scope doesn't take away from its being waterproof does it? If it's just harmless marks, then it's not such a big deal, as it gives me more incentive to paint the rifle.

Thanks!
-Rohann
 
I just mounted a set of the same rings and I lapped them. They needed it. I always put powdered rosin in the rings after lapping. It protects the scope and helps prevent slipage.

I am assuming you placed the top of the rings on correctly and not reversed?


.
 
guntech said:
I just mounted a set of the same rings and I lapped them. They needed it. I always put powdered rosin in the rings after lapping. It protects the scope and helps prevent slipage.

I am assuming you placed the top of the rings on correctly and not reversed?


.
Click to expand...
Yes indeed, with the notch on the left side. I'm going to mount them exactly the way I initially did as well, with the same screws in the same holes.

My main concern right now, is: did I damage the scope or rings in any way, by the looks of it (besides a bit of finish)?

-Rohann
 
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Rohann said:
Yes indeed, with the notch on the left side. I'm going to mount them exactly the way I initially did as well, with the same screws in the same holes.

My main concern right now, is: did I damage the scope or rings in any way, by the looks of it (besides a bit of finish)?

-Rohann
Click to expand...

Probably cosmetic only...
 
guntech said:
Probably cosmetic only...
Click to expand...
Judging from the pictures, is that what you'd say? I could actually take most of the markings off with a cloth and some moisture. Also, is it essential to lap the rings? I'd like to get out practicing with this thing before I spend more money on things that aren't essential (preferrably). And are the rings okay for re-mounting, or will the scratched rings damage the scope further?
Sorry for all the incessant questions, I'm just a little worried about this as it wasn't exactly a cheap setup.

-Rohann
 
Rohann,
By the looks of the wear marks on the rings and scope, I would
advise that these be lapped. You can get away with not doing so by
applying loctite to the rings while you are seating the scope, but this
isn't exactly what I would do if given the choice. Like you said, it isn't a cheap set up why built in possible causes of failure and inaccuracies.
Cheers,
Wolfgang.
 
Sorry about that, I was exactly clear on what lapping is. Depending on the cost, lapping sounds like a good idea. How much does it cost to get this kind of thing done?

guntech: If you don't mind me asking, are you a smith? And if so, would you be able to lap my rings for me? How much do you charge (if you have that service).

-Rohann
 
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