moving on up 375hh to 416 rigby

nowarningshot said:
I was surprised in reloading the Rigby. Own and have owned most of the big magnums. Rigby uses rather faster powders than I would have expected, and is historically loaded to lower pressure. Suppose that's because of tropical temperatures in Africa and Asia. Most historic powders would have been very temperature instabil. In a modern rifle, in Kanada, I suppose you could load the 416 Rigby much hotter. Powders used to get decent performance in the Ruger cases should really push the Rigby with its big case. We've come a long ways from cordite.

In the end though, I'm not really sure of the point. The obvious problem is recoil. Secondly, while the 375's have decent projectiles, and can be useful to mid range, the 416's dont/aren't. It's in a no man's range between the versatility of the 375's and the true stopping rifles. Seems to me most high bc 416 projectiles are designed for target calibers like the cheytac. Thirdly, if you hunted with a hot loaded 416, it's really only useful in the remote north, or Africa. To handle the recoil, you'd want a heavy rifle, and packing that 10-20 km a day is more than my broken body could handle
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Shot my first elk with a .416 Remington with the 300 x bullet at 2900. Sub 9 lb gun. Hard to beat with a .375. Not arguing just saying.
 
Dogleg said:
I got my .416 Rigby with the sincere belief that it would up killing power. In the end; I'm not sure it did that. What it did do is double recoil and halve mag capacity for no gain I could swear to. ... It's my belief that the higher velocity .375 compensated for a bit more diameter and weight. At least with the .458 and Lott I could see a difference and knew why I was soaking up that recoil and cost. ... Oh; shoot A-Frames:cool:
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Very interesting. May I ask what was your higher velocity .375 cartridge ? .375 Remington Ultra Mag - and up ?
 
Certainly don't have to speak for dogleg, but.....I've had a 375H&H which would be faster than a 416 Rigby, and currently own a 375 rum, which is much faster. My rum load is a 260 partition @3050ft/sec, so a 270 x2, maybe more energy than 2x energy. Rigby loads are low pressure, so iirc typically a 400gr @ 2400-2450ft sec. Velocity is squared in the energy calculation, so the higher velocity should more than make up for the larger projectile of the 416.
 
Snowy Owl said:
Very interesting. May I ask what was your higher velocity .375 cartridge ? .375 Remington Ultra Mag - and up ?
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I was referring more to an H&H loaded up to 2700-2800 fps compared to a Rigby at 2200- to 2400 on a good day. However; my bigger .375s are/were the Weatherby (2950) and Cheytac at you don't even wanna know. :) Lets just say the starting load is 130 grains of Retumbo.:runaway:
 
I own two Vanguards that I had rebarreled, one in a 375 Ruger and one in 416 Ruger, I was warned and found it to be true that any 416 is a significant increase in recoil over a 375. I injured my shoulder last summer, I think I am shooting the least of the 416s and have purchased a Caldwell shoulder pad. I know there are a few 416s and many other calibres with more recoil, however this is where I stop, I have no interest in anything stronger.
 
dogger1 said:
Ouch, not on recoil but price of kit. Well took the plunge hence selling my 2 375s. How much more stopping power on actual game is there. Most likely hunting Dagga Boys .Was in Africa 3 times prior to Covid and waiting for things to ease down. was going originally for 470ne double but that's on another level, plus i can get a free Buff for the price difference.In meantime .i can practice on moose here for an urban Safari.
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From 37 pound of felt energy recoil to 58 pounds, that is moving up!
 
I once built a .416 Rem Mag on a 700 action. Weighed about 8.5 pounds... a max loaded 400 grain bullet was brutal on your shoulder.
 
guntech said:
I once built a .416 Rem Mag on a 700 action. Weighed about 8.5 pounds... a max loaded 400 grain bullet was brutal on your shoulder.
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Sounds like it. Mine is 10.5lbs with scope and the recoil is solid. I've read the ideal rifle weight for the 416s is between 10-11lbs.
 
Dogleg said:
... However; my bigger .375s are/were the Weatherby (2950) ...
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Can you see a difference between the higher velocity .378 Weatherby cartridge power and some lower velocity .375 cartridge power (let's say the .375 H&H cartridge, for example) - on game ?

No, I do not own a rifle in .378 Weatherby caliber and I have no intention of ever owning one but I am always on the lookout for first hand information and experience.
 
Snowy Owl said:
Can you see a difference between the higher velocity .378 Weatherby cartridge power and some lower velocity .375 cartridge power (let's say the .375 H&H cartridge, for example) - on game ?

No, I do not own a rifle in .378 Weatherby caliber and I have no intention of ever owning one but I am always on the lookout for first hand information and experience.
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I don’t have a 378 though my 375 Weatherby loads are overlapping many of its bigger cousin’s. I’ve never found the “Speed kills” school of thought to be wrong with the standard disclaimer that you need a bullet that can stand up to the higher velocity. I hunted with a guy who accidently brought 378 factory loads loaded with Interlocks to Zim. They were in the wrong box, though whether it was his error or the factory isn’t known to me. Interlocks in a Nosler Partition box anyway. That was a total train wreck, the Interlocks may as well been V Maxs at that speed. He shot his buffalo til it got dark, then came back in the morning and finished it off 12 hours later with the booking agents 416 Rigby. There were about a dozen holes in that sorry beast.

I’ve found a significant difference between the 458 at factory claimed speeds and hotrodded and Lott loads. You can see the difference visually, on something big enough to slow them down, which is to say buffalo and up.
 
Dogleg said:
I don’t have a 378 though my 375 Weatherby loads are overlapping many of its bigger cousin’s. I’ve never found the “Speed kills” school of thought to be wrong with the standard disclaimer that you need a bullet that can stand up to the higher velocity. I hunted with a guy who accidently brought 378 factory loads loaded with Interlocks to Zim. They were in the wrong box, though whether it was his error or the factory isn’t known to me. Interlocks in a Nosler Partition box anyway. That was a total train wreck, the Interlocks may as well been V Maxs at that speed. He shot his buffalo til it got dark, then came back in the morning and finished it off 12 hours later with the booking agents 416 Rigby. There were about a dozen holes in that sorry beast.

I’ve found a significant difference between the 458 at factory claimed speeds and hotrodded and Lott loads. You can see the difference visually, on something big enough to slow them down, which is to say buffalo and up.
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This is exactly the kind of information that I was looking for on higher velocity .375 rifle calibers. "You can see the difference visually, on something big enough to slow them down, which is to say buffalo and up". So there IS a difference.

Excellent ! Thank you very much.
 
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