Moving up from a Gen1 Razor, need some insight.

xURSOx

xURSOx

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
97   0   0
Location
Sudbury ON
Hey CGN,

I've finally decided to move up from the 5-20 power range. I was using a Vortex Razor Gen I 5-20 EBR-2C (5 mil turrets) for the last 2 years. That was my first optic that I considered in the high tier of pricing.

Anyways, just sold it today as I'm wanting to dive into something along the lines of 5-25 power and more turret travel.

Im tied between the Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56 (Same reticle as my old razor) or a S&B 5-25 with the P4L Fine reticle.

All the reviews I read always favour the Vortex due to price. Usually, its cheaper. Not the case here. I don't mind buying used optics when they're not abused. Lots of S&B's for sale here on the EE for around the $3000 range. Including the features I'm looking for. The thing is, Gen II razors are not common on the used market as its a hot item.

Either a S&B for around $3000 shipped to my door, or a Gen II razor (new) to my door taxes in for 3,950.00..... The big argument on the internet is that the Razor Gen II's are cheaper and more bang for your buck than the S&B's. In my case, its swapped around.

I love Vortex, they truly make a great optic. However the S&B's have always been to me as the benchmark of long range shooting optics. I know one is used, and one is new. Im just looking at the value here. Almost a $1000 difference between the two in my current situation, however, I'm fortunate enough that I can afford both options.

Any insight would be great from people who own any of these optics. This optic won't be for paper punching. I shoot out to 1400m on a regular basis.

Cheers, and happy shooting.

Matt
 
Not having owned either of those high end scopes, I would just offer an observation:

What did your Gen I sell for used? If you ever decide to flip the new scope again, I would expect the S&B to still be worth close to $3000 in 5 years. Not that there is anything wrong with the Vortex, they seem to depreciate a little quicker.
 
Long range shooting is dominated by Nightforce and they have specific models designed for FClass, Precision Rifle and Benchrest.
 
Speaking on only 2nd hand knowledge, because I've never held a S&B (so, take with a grain of salt), I'd go with the S&B. There's a reason it's been the gold standard for a long time and the one other scopes are compared against. The Razor Gen II is a very good scope (the one I've been eyeing as well), but I'd have a hard time spending the extra $1,000 when there's a S&B on the table.
 
Here's the big problem with S&B IMHO; Warranty.

S&B only has a 3 yr warranty, to the original purchaser ONLY. So it's an expensive optic, that admittedly has quality second to none. But I wouldn't buy another used one EVER AGAIN!!!!

I just got one back from the repair centre. I sent it off in October. It has been returned to me in "new condition", but I had to pay $750. Export, Import and the cost to repair.

Buy the new vortex or buy the new S&B, that would be apples to apples.

My $.02
 
I have only one S&B, and it's one of the newer made-in-hungary versions, purchased used on the EE. I didn't know about the 3-year warranty, and I'll admit that's a valid point and concern; but so far so good. It's held up to fairly extensive use hunting yotes throughout a north-of-Winnipeg winter.

My only experience with Vortex is with the lower and mid-priced sections of their line...but that experience has all been bad. Multiple returns for the same problem, only to find that the problem returns quickly or has not been addressed at all upon receiving the optic back from Vortex. The only thing good about Vortex, IMHO, is that they don't pull the "That's not covered" card; if you have a problem, they tell you "Send it in, we'll cover it!"...but talk is cheap if you don't fix the issue. It seems that you're paying money for an expensive warranty, and they throw in a cheap scope as a free bonus.

Given your choice, i.e. an expensive Vortex vs a relatively inexpensive S&B, it wouldn't take me long to decide.
 
Where are you getting the price of a Gen II Razor for $3950??? I just bought a new AMG and had it to my door for $3400. Watch the EE for a used Gen II Razor, they tend to pop up occasionally and for decent prices. I'd never have any hesitation buying a used Vortex because if you have an issue, they'll fix it. S&B, I'd be hesitant buying used.
 
Clocked92 said:
Where are you getting the price of a Gen II Razor for $3950??? I just bought a new AMG and had it to my door for $3400. Watch the EE for a used Gen II Razor, they tend to pop up occasionally and for decent prices. I'd never have any hesitation buying a used Vortex because if you have an issue, they'll fix it. S&B, I'd be hesitant buying used.
Click to expand...

The Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56 is selling in Canada for around 3500 +/- $50. By the time you add tax, it's almost 4K
 
Kane519 said:
Speaking on only 2nd hand knowledge, because I've never held a S&B (so, take with a grain of salt), I'd go with the S&B. There's a reason it's been the gold standard for a long time and the one other scopes are compared against. The Razor Gen II is a very good scope (the one I've been eyeing as well), but I'd have a hard time spending the extra $1,000 when there's a S&B on the table.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm thinking too. Either way, both options will be a great upgrade from the Gen I razor.
 
If both scopes were the same price I would go for the S+B. If you can get the S+B for cheaper then its a no brainer. I have seen SB with years of millitary abuse in the desert, function flawlessly.
 
xURSOx said:
If you don't mind me asking, what was the reason for repair?
Click to expand...

It was an impulse buy.....

I had just picked up a 375 H&H. I walked into the LGS, with the recent purchase ringing in my ears....

I saw a used S&B 1.25-4x28 scope in the display case. It was manufactured in the '80s. It had been abused in its previous life, I don't know the story for sure, but getting dropped down an embankment and "saving" the rifle by landing on the scope would easily explain the external damage visible on the scope.

The scope functioned, L-R and U-D adjustments were operational. but the ocular lens would not adjust and the reticle was just a little fuzzy, too fuzzy to just ignore and no adjustment!

So I sent it off to Wolverine (the Canadian dealer that is authorized to ship to Europe for S&B warranty). I wanted an estimate on the repair before authorizing any work, as I was already informed what the S&B warranty covered (or wouldn't cover in my case).

Instead of an estimate, the scope was repaired. The entire body was repaired and refinished, the ocular bell was replaced, the interior of the scope was cleaned, the lenses were cleaned and "de-scratched" (or replaced as they are now crystal clear and shown no wear). It looks like someone found a NIB scope that was 30yrs old and just unboxed it.

I paid $500 for the scope, Wolverine ate the import/export charges (due to the non-estimate and unauthorized repair) and only charged me the $750 for repair. A real bunch of stand-up guys IMHO!

So I now have (in today's dollars) a $2500 + tax etc. scope for under $1300. About what I would have probably paid for a good used S&B dangerous game scope....

If the scope is cheap/inexpensive enough, it's worth doing.

All told about 4.5 months turn-around on the repair.
 
notsorichguy said:
It was an impulse buy.....

I had just picked up a 375 H&H. I walked into the LGS, with the recent purchase ringing in my ears....

I saw a used S&B 1.25-4x28 scope in the display case. It was manufactured in the '80s. It had been abused in its previous life, I don't know the story for sure, but getting dropped down an embankment and "saving" the rifle by landing on the scope would easily explain the external damage visible on the scope.

The scope functioned, L-R and U-D adjustments were operational. but the ocular lens would not adjust and the reticle was just a little fuzzy, too fuzzy to just ignore and no adjustment!

So I sent it off to Wolverine (the Canadian dealer that is authorized to ship to Europe for S&B warranty). I wanted an estimate on the repair before authorizing any work, as I was already informed what the S&B warranty covered (or wouldn't cover in my case).

Instead of an estimate, the scope was repaired. The entire body was repaired and refinished, the ocular bell was replaced, the interior of the scope was cleaned, the lenses were cleaned and "de-scratched" (or replaced as they are now crystal clear and shown no wear). It looks like someone found a NIB scope that was 30yrs old and just unboxed it.

I paid $500 for the scope, Wolverine ate the import/export charges (due to the non-estimate and unauthorized repair) and only charged me the $750 for repair. A real bunch of stand-up guys IMHO!

So I now have (in today's dollars) a $2500 + tax etc. scope for under $1300. About what I would have probably paid for a good used S&B dangerous game scope....

If the scope is cheap/inexpensive enough, it's worth doing.

All told about 4.5 months turn-around on the repair.
Click to expand...

I see now. I would have never done a deal like that haha. The used scopes I'm looking at are in pretty much mint condition
 
I have S+B Pmii 5-25x56 with P4F and Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56 with EBR 2-C and NF ATACR F1 7-35x56. For me it is a toss up between the latter two as to which goes on my top rifle. As mentioned in another thread the S+B is relagated to third string rifle and I'm saying that as a S+B fan ( optics snob maybe lol )
 
I've got both the Gen 2 and a S&B P4f, and I wouldn't get rid of either of them, both are great scopes. The Gen 2 has some feachers I like more than the S&B, on the other hand I like the simplicity of my S&B. The illumination built into the parallax knob adding for more mounting surface is awesome. Which give way to more surface around for different mounts or rings. As well as the locking torrents which I do believe costs more on the S&B. Both have fantastic glass, however in my opinion I believe the S&B is a little brighter and transfers low light a little better than the Gen 2. But you really have to put them side by side and look through both of them at different lighting conditions to be able to to tell the difference. For me I don't like when you zoom out on the S&B as it looks further away and as though you're looking through a tunnel. The Gen 2 when zoomed out still fills the entire viewing plain without a big black ring around it. I've had the Gen 2 for more than a yr know and its been knock around a few times so it's got some makes on it. And I've still had no problems with it. In my opinion the Gen 1 which I also have, doesn't hold a tie to the Gen2. It's a far greater product as I have had a few problems with the Gen 1. I believe the Gen 2 is in a class of its own when it comes to the Vortex lineup. The S&B has been used in military operations for yrs so that should say something. And you are guaranteed to get a true MOA or MRAD clicks with no deviation in elevation or wind on the turrets. If you like MOA Vortex makes a MOA to MOA scope, however S&B does not make a MOA reticle. I found that out the hard way. This would have been a $1300 to fix $800 to switch the turrets and $500 inport export. Let's just say I convert on the fly very well. If I ever had a problem with the S&B it would cost to get it fix which isn't the case with the Gen2. Regardless you're not going to regret either one these scopes.
Hope this helps
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom