Any reviews on these? anyone have one? price seems decent, but only if they are good.
http://www.muelleroptics.com/
http://www.muelleroptics.com/
Mueller rifle scopes?? anyone have one? how do they compare?
- Thread starter bill c68
- Start date
I've answered many of these threads about Meullers. I have two of the APV's and I think they are great scopes for the money. One is on my CZ452 and the other is on my 223 bolt action ruger. Very sharp image and has never let me down. I don't have experience with the others, but I'd like to try the APT on a 223 or 22 rimfire.
I have two muellers , but I wouldn't compare them against a Leupold.
You get what you pay for in most cases, the Mueller is a good bang for your buck. I am not disappointed with mine at all.
You get what you pay for in most cases, the Mueller is a good bang for your buck. I am not disappointed with mine at all.
Prior to purchasing the Mueller, I spoke with the Canadian distributor in Manitoba. He told me that the glass is made in Japan, the tube and turrets are made in Germany and the scope is assembled in China.
The fit and finish of the scope is excellent however not as good as my Leupold but at least as good as the 4200 elite. As stated earlier, you get what you pay for.
One more point, I was assured that if not satisfied with the scope I could return it and get full money back.
So far so good!
The fit and finish of the scope is excellent however not as good as my Leupold but at least as good as the 4200 elite. As stated earlier, you get what you pay for.
One more point, I was assured that if not satisfied with the scope I could return it and get full money back.
So far so good!
I have no complaints about the optics and wouldn't pay a hundred more for something that someone can measure some superior optical quality. It wouldn't mean anything meaningful to me. I'm happy to be able to see 22 cal holes in paper at 200 yards, and to have enough anti reflective coatings inside that I can shoot near into the sun in the evenings, something that made me put down my other rifle that had a Banner scope on it. My only concern would be making sure that if you put one on a high recoil rifle, or medium recoil semi auto that you chose one that can handle the recoil and vibration. I've only used the APV's on 22LR and 223 bolt and I'd be cautious about putting them on something that might rattle them to death. But my hesitation to do so isn't based on experience, but rather caution.
A tree o tree, but I would never buy a scope that couldn't be used on any rifle unless I am buying a rimfire scope.
Attached is a review from Real Guns. Take from this what you want, but I think the recoil test speaks for it self.
The Mueller 3-10x44 Tac II
Another Choice in Premium Scopes
By Joseph D'Alessandro Editor | RealGuns.Com
If you've been following the CZ 550 375 H&H project, you're probably aware the rifle is scoped with a Mueller 3-10x44 Tac II. Initially, I thought this scope might represent a magnification overkill and, because it lacked a national debt size price tag, it might not hold up under the pounding of heavy recoil. The more I shot with the combination, the more I realized my concerns were unwarranted. The 375 H&H has a long reach and makes full use of the scope's magnification. In terms of reliability, the scope has not skipped a beat, even after weeks of pounding during handload development. It is a very good scope.
A return to a realistic scope : rifle price relationship
The Mueller 3-10x44 Tac II is an important product for the greater majority of shooters. Premium scope prices are skyrocketing at a time when most gun manufacturers are introducing reasonably priced products in an attempt to breath life into a stagnant firearms market. Consequently, odd scenarios develop like a $400 Weatherby Vanguard rifle, chambered for the 300 Weatherby Magnum, wearing $600 worth of Leupold or Burris glass. The Tac II has an MSRP of only $299 and can be found at discount retailers for $269, a more historically proportioned price for even a $1,000 rifle. I know there is a temptation, because of the modest price, to mentally lump the Mueller product in with similarly priced products from Simmons, or Weaver or Bushnell. That would be a mistake, as the this model Mueller better aligns on features, performance and quality with the Leupold VX-III or Burris Signature Select products. Rather than provide a standard table of specs that can be found on scope manufacturer's sites, including Mueller Optics, I though I might offer some insight gained through my shooting experience.
My personal scope killer, everyone should have one
The first criticisms of moderately priced scope are almost always leveled at an inability withstand recoil. The Mueller scope's first assignment was the CZ 550 375 H&H magnum project where it was subjected to first 100, then a total of 250 rounds of full up loads and never faltered. Some of the Woodleigh 350 grain handloads churned up 47 ft/lbs of recoil, not a major thumper, but still more than twice the recoil of a typical rifle chambered for the 30-06 Springfield. I thought it would be interesting to see how well the scope worked with something a little more serious in the jarring shock department, so I installed the Mueller on an 8 1/2 lb 416 Weatherby Magnum and cranked through a box of 400 grain handloads without the muzzle brake in place. No complaints from the scope; no fallen reticles, no lost adjustment. That's just under 100 ft/lbs of retina detaching recoil with each shot fired. I can only say, with a great deal of pride that I have been able to break scopes from most every major and minor manufacturer. Clearly the Mueller is reliable and can handle recoil.
Eye relief in Context
I have no over eye lumps or bumps as part of the Mueller shooting experience. I don't know how much eye relief it takes for recoil contact avoidance, but the Mueller eye relief is apparently sufficient; approximately 3.5"-3.1" for low to high magnification. The specification does gives up a bit to scopes like the Leupold VX-III series or the Burris Xtreme Tactical, but then these scopes sell at 2 - 2.5 times the price of the Mueller Tac II. The rubber cushioned fast focus 38mm eyepiece is larger than similarly priced scopes in this magnification range. It is comfortable in use and provides a substantial range of ocular adjustment which allowed me to shoot with or without glasses. I would like to see a little more eye relief for greater flexibility in locating the scope on the rifle, but I encountered no mounting problems on either the CZ 550 American Magnum or the Weatherby Mark V.
Building an optical test lab on a 50 buck budget
The Mueller Tac II produces very bright, clear and sharp images with excellent contrast. The fully multi-coated optics are Japanese, as is the scope's assembly. What does that mean? Coated optics with high light transmission percentage means more light is passed through the objective and less light is reflected off the objective. More light into the scope; potentially more light through the eye piece. The only complication is that the light entering the scope is diminished by all of the other lenses and apertures within the scope and contrast can be diminished by every internal surface of the scope that has the slightest level of reflectivity.
We built a light tight box 21" long, long enough to accommodate any scope within a sample group. Inside we placed fabricated saddle mounts to locate and center any 1" tube scope up to 21" in length and with up to a 50mm objective lens. We created a 1.2" aperture at the front of the box, covered with a translucent white filter to diffuse light entering the aperture, and we baffled the opening on the inside to create a light seal between a scope's objective lens and the light source. The light source was a voltage regulated and reflected halogen lamp located 2" from the box. We sprayed the inside surfaces of the box matte black and located an adjustable meter sensor at the back of the box, moving it to the point of image focus behind each scope's eyepiece; approximately the eye relief distance. I think the Mueller did remarkably well compared to two very expensive scope, especially when the Leupold is a 50mm objective scope designed for low light use and the Burris has a manual aperture to crank open for twilight use, the setting selected for the light test. As you can see, it made a collection of some of my other scopes look...less than exciting.
Lux - Illumination at the Eyepiece
Scope Model
4x Magnification 9x Magnification Price
Mueller Tac II 3-10x44mm 846 452 $269
Burris Signature 4-16x46mm 800 480 $509
Leupold VX III 3.5-10x50mm 1308 497 $549
Other Common Scopes for Reference
Burris Compact 3-9x32mm 336 241 $289
Bushnell 3200 3-10x40mm 664 383 $209
Leupold VX II 2-7x33mm 747 222 (7x) $349
Pine Ridge Tactical .17 3-12x40mm 283 177 $129
Tasco 3-9x40mm 223 109 $109
Ease of Use
The scope looks good. No, damn it, it looks like precision machinery mounted on the boomer. The finish is real matte black, not that Rustoleum semi-gloss on plastic look so familiar on some scopes, and not that "rub off on your fingers" flat black used on certain brands of pricy scopes. The turret adjustments are protected with screw on/off metal dust caps, adjustments are made with finger tips. The clicks are precise, the range of adjustment is wide; 90 inches of windage and elevation at 100 yards, and the assembly is shaft and thimble with gross and fine indexed markings. During range days I entertained myself my predictably walking shot placement around a target by using the indicated increments. For as easy as they are in use, no adjustment changed or shook loose under recoil.
The magnification adjustment is positive and does not slip or move around under recoil. I could find no perceptible shift in point of impact over the magnification range. There is a small screw on the collar that permits adjustment to turning. Rather than a fine screw eyepiece adjustment for focus, there is a quick focus and requires very little movement to reach an optimal setting, which is a good think. The human eye can hold focus on a near image for only a brief period of time. If you have ever chased focus adjustment around over a 20 find thread expanse with focus remaining elusive, you know what I mean. There are not other adjustments. The scope is a preset parallax type and optimized at the factory for 100 yards. I suppose someone could make the argument for 150 yards, but the difference between 100 and 150 yards optical adjustment for parallax correction is approximately 0.001".
The 3-10x44mm Tac II has a mildot reticle, which means rangefinder capability by using the dots on the reticle for range estimating, something that is typically an extra cost option from other companies offering this feature. There is a full explanation of this feature on the Mueller site.
Take your pick
Mueller optics offers lots of optical sights including those with head up displays and red dots for handguns, shotguns and archery. They also produce a full line of illuminated and non-illuminated reticle rifle scopes. Products start at a little over $100 and run to a high of $300 for the 3-9x44mm Tac II. The primary models run just either side of $200. The are all of one piece tube construction, all metal adjuster assemblies and all are fully water, fog, and shockproof and come with the same broad limited lifetime warranty. After having a run of scopes from manufacturers that were so expensive I was afraid to take them into the woods for fear of scratching a lens coating, then a run of scopes scopes so cheap their image was like looking through a rolled up newspaper, it was a personal treat for me to shoot with a good durable scope I am not afraid to use and one that doesn't compromise in performance. I have one, I will own more.
The Mueller 3-10x44 Tac II
Another Choice in Premium Scopes
By Joseph D'Alessandro Editor | RealGuns.Com
If you've been following the CZ 550 375 H&H project, you're probably aware the rifle is scoped with a Mueller 3-10x44 Tac II. Initially, I thought this scope might represent a magnification overkill and, because it lacked a national debt size price tag, it might not hold up under the pounding of heavy recoil. The more I shot with the combination, the more I realized my concerns were unwarranted. The 375 H&H has a long reach and makes full use of the scope's magnification. In terms of reliability, the scope has not skipped a beat, even after weeks of pounding during handload development. It is a very good scope.
A return to a realistic scope : rifle price relationship
The Mueller 3-10x44 Tac II is an important product for the greater majority of shooters. Premium scope prices are skyrocketing at a time when most gun manufacturers are introducing reasonably priced products in an attempt to breath life into a stagnant firearms market. Consequently, odd scenarios develop like a $400 Weatherby Vanguard rifle, chambered for the 300 Weatherby Magnum, wearing $600 worth of Leupold or Burris glass. The Tac II has an MSRP of only $299 and can be found at discount retailers for $269, a more historically proportioned price for even a $1,000 rifle. I know there is a temptation, because of the modest price, to mentally lump the Mueller product in with similarly priced products from Simmons, or Weaver or Bushnell. That would be a mistake, as the this model Mueller better aligns on features, performance and quality with the Leupold VX-III or Burris Signature Select products. Rather than provide a standard table of specs that can be found on scope manufacturer's sites, including Mueller Optics, I though I might offer some insight gained through my shooting experience.
My personal scope killer, everyone should have one
The first criticisms of moderately priced scope are almost always leveled at an inability withstand recoil. The Mueller scope's first assignment was the CZ 550 375 H&H magnum project where it was subjected to first 100, then a total of 250 rounds of full up loads and never faltered. Some of the Woodleigh 350 grain handloads churned up 47 ft/lbs of recoil, not a major thumper, but still more than twice the recoil of a typical rifle chambered for the 30-06 Springfield. I thought it would be interesting to see how well the scope worked with something a little more serious in the jarring shock department, so I installed the Mueller on an 8 1/2 lb 416 Weatherby Magnum and cranked through a box of 400 grain handloads without the muzzle brake in place. No complaints from the scope; no fallen reticles, no lost adjustment. That's just under 100 ft/lbs of retina detaching recoil with each shot fired. I can only say, with a great deal of pride that I have been able to break scopes from most every major and minor manufacturer. Clearly the Mueller is reliable and can handle recoil.
Eye relief in Context
I have no over eye lumps or bumps as part of the Mueller shooting experience. I don't know how much eye relief it takes for recoil contact avoidance, but the Mueller eye relief is apparently sufficient; approximately 3.5"-3.1" for low to high magnification. The specification does gives up a bit to scopes like the Leupold VX-III series or the Burris Xtreme Tactical, but then these scopes sell at 2 - 2.5 times the price of the Mueller Tac II. The rubber cushioned fast focus 38mm eyepiece is larger than similarly priced scopes in this magnification range. It is comfortable in use and provides a substantial range of ocular adjustment which allowed me to shoot with or without glasses. I would like to see a little more eye relief for greater flexibility in locating the scope on the rifle, but I encountered no mounting problems on either the CZ 550 American Magnum or the Weatherby Mark V.
Building an optical test lab on a 50 buck budget
The Mueller Tac II produces very bright, clear and sharp images with excellent contrast. The fully multi-coated optics are Japanese, as is the scope's assembly. What does that mean? Coated optics with high light transmission percentage means more light is passed through the objective and less light is reflected off the objective. More light into the scope; potentially more light through the eye piece. The only complication is that the light entering the scope is diminished by all of the other lenses and apertures within the scope and contrast can be diminished by every internal surface of the scope that has the slightest level of reflectivity.
We built a light tight box 21" long, long enough to accommodate any scope within a sample group. Inside we placed fabricated saddle mounts to locate and center any 1" tube scope up to 21" in length and with up to a 50mm objective lens. We created a 1.2" aperture at the front of the box, covered with a translucent white filter to diffuse light entering the aperture, and we baffled the opening on the inside to create a light seal between a scope's objective lens and the light source. The light source was a voltage regulated and reflected halogen lamp located 2" from the box. We sprayed the inside surfaces of the box matte black and located an adjustable meter sensor at the back of the box, moving it to the point of image focus behind each scope's eyepiece; approximately the eye relief distance. I think the Mueller did remarkably well compared to two very expensive scope, especially when the Leupold is a 50mm objective scope designed for low light use and the Burris has a manual aperture to crank open for twilight use, the setting selected for the light test. As you can see, it made a collection of some of my other scopes look...less than exciting.
Lux - Illumination at the Eyepiece
Scope Model
4x Magnification 9x Magnification Price
Mueller Tac II 3-10x44mm 846 452 $269
Burris Signature 4-16x46mm 800 480 $509
Leupold VX III 3.5-10x50mm 1308 497 $549
Other Common Scopes for Reference
Burris Compact 3-9x32mm 336 241 $289
Bushnell 3200 3-10x40mm 664 383 $209
Leupold VX II 2-7x33mm 747 222 (7x) $349
Pine Ridge Tactical .17 3-12x40mm 283 177 $129
Tasco 3-9x40mm 223 109 $109
Ease of Use
The scope looks good. No, damn it, it looks like precision machinery mounted on the boomer. The finish is real matte black, not that Rustoleum semi-gloss on plastic look so familiar on some scopes, and not that "rub off on your fingers" flat black used on certain brands of pricy scopes. The turret adjustments are protected with screw on/off metal dust caps, adjustments are made with finger tips. The clicks are precise, the range of adjustment is wide; 90 inches of windage and elevation at 100 yards, and the assembly is shaft and thimble with gross and fine indexed markings. During range days I entertained myself my predictably walking shot placement around a target by using the indicated increments. For as easy as they are in use, no adjustment changed or shook loose under recoil.
The magnification adjustment is positive and does not slip or move around under recoil. I could find no perceptible shift in point of impact over the magnification range. There is a small screw on the collar that permits adjustment to turning. Rather than a fine screw eyepiece adjustment for focus, there is a quick focus and requires very little movement to reach an optimal setting, which is a good think. The human eye can hold focus on a near image for only a brief period of time. If you have ever chased focus adjustment around over a 20 find thread expanse with focus remaining elusive, you know what I mean. There are not other adjustments. The scope is a preset parallax type and optimized at the factory for 100 yards. I suppose someone could make the argument for 150 yards, but the difference between 100 and 150 yards optical adjustment for parallax correction is approximately 0.001".
The 3-10x44mm Tac II has a mildot reticle, which means rangefinder capability by using the dots on the reticle for range estimating, something that is typically an extra cost option from other companies offering this feature. There is a full explanation of this feature on the Mueller site.
Take your pick
Mueller optics offers lots of optical sights including those with head up displays and red dots for handguns, shotguns and archery. They also produce a full line of illuminated and non-illuminated reticle rifle scopes. Products start at a little over $100 and run to a high of $300 for the 3-9x44mm Tac II. The primary models run just either side of $200. The are all of one piece tube construction, all metal adjuster assemblies and all are fully water, fog, and shockproof and come with the same broad limited lifetime warranty. After having a run of scopes from manufacturers that were so expensive I was afraid to take them into the woods for fear of scratching a lens coating, then a run of scopes scopes so cheap their image was like looking through a rolled up newspaper, it was a personal treat for me to shoot with a good durable scope I am not afraid to use and one that doesn't compromise in performance. I have one, I will own more.
I'd ask the dealer about which ones are intended for light recoiling rifles and which ones are made for heavier recoiling cartridges. There's probably different intended applications. I believe the APV was intended for lighter recoiling rifles, and I didn't want to give you the impression that it could be used on anything. Not sure which scope you were looking at in the Mueller line. I have good experience with the APV, and I've heard good things about the Eraticator on varmint rifles.
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
there used to be a dealer here who sold them... think it was White Falls or something.... haven;t seen much of him for a LONG time
