Multiple lot numbers in cases of Federal ammunition?

[MapleSugar]

I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed the multiple lot numbers printed on the boxes within the cases of Federal ammunition lately?

I usually buy ammo by the case and if I'm buying several cases I try to get it all from the same lot (production run.) This is in order to hopefully get consistency with all of the rounds so that I don't need to readjust the zero on my firearms every time that I switch to another case.

Lately, I've noticed that Federal ammo has several lot numbers stamped inside the boxes on all of the ammo that I've been buying by the case. Whether it's 12 gauge 00 buck or slug, or .223 Rem in various loadings, they all seem to be leftover rounds from different production runs that were cobbled together and boxed up into cases.

For example, I have two, 500 round cases of .223 Rem Federal Tactical with 62 gr. bullets that have lot numbers that range from M613U50 - M613P60 (in one case) and M613U50 - M616P60 (in the other.)

I also have some 175 round ammo cans of 12 gauge 00 buck that range from B309P01 - M544P05 to M596Q01 - M597Q05 in several different cans.

Has anyone noticed this and shot any of this ammo?

I don't really want to waste my money on leftover rounds that are all thrown together into boxes (and cases) that will likely give me inconsistent results. Especially with the .223 Rem. I'm not really concerned about the 12 gauge ammo.

FWIW, any PMC ammo that I've ever bought in .223 Rem by the case only has one lot number on it.

Thanks for looking!

Here are some photos of the Federal 00 buck that I have to show what I'm talking about. (The .223 Rem is in regular 500 round cardboard boxes.)

 

[PSE]

Interesting - I never really knew what the multiple strings of numbers meant but it makes sense. From now on I'll look inside the flap on every ammo purchase and only choose ammo that has one number set printed.

Like you've said - for shotgun (and maybe pistol) it might not matter but for rifle it might make a difference in performance.

I'm actually a little surprised a large well known ammo company like Federal would do that. If they ever had a recall due to safety issues multiple lot numbers would make it difficult to pinpoint the problem.

 

[powerbaitron]

The tactical should be a spec round as LEO uses it. I doubt there will be any variance. It isn’t a precision round anyways. For the buck shot it will matter even less. I can see your point if it was Lapua rimfire. I have shot a lot of federal and they stay consistent on their spec for gold medal match.

 

[MapleSugar]

Interesting - I never really knew what the multiple strings of numbers meant but it makes sense. From now on I'll look inside the flap on every ammo purchase and only choose ammo that has one number set printed.

Like you've said - for shotgun (and maybe pistol) it might not matter but for rifle it might make a difference in performance.

I'm actually a little surprised a large well known ammo company like Federal would do that. If they ever had a recall due to safety issues multiple lot numbers would make it difficult to pinpoint the problem.

The tactical should be a spec round as LEO uses it. I doubt there will be any variance. It isn’t a precision round anyways. For the buck shot it will matter even less. I can see your point if it was Lapua rimfire. I have shot a lot of federal and they stay consistent on their spec for gold medal match.

Thanks for your replies, guys!

Good news!

I asked the same question on the ar15 forum and a clever gent there sent Federal an e-mail and got a very rapid reply.

His response from Federal:

"Thank you for the e-mail.

One lot code is when manufactured and other is when packaged.

Thank You

Federal Ammunition

Tech Services"

I assume then that the first set of numbers is the manufacturing lot and the second set is the packaging lot.

Now I know and I feel like an idiot for asking. However, I could never get an answer from them no matter if I phoned them or left a message on their website.

 

[FLHTCUI]

Interesting - I never really knew what the multiple strings of numbers meant but it makes sense. From now on I'll look inside the flap on every ammo purchase and only choose ammo that has one number set printed.

Like you've said - for shotgun (and maybe pistol) it might not matter but for rifle it might make a difference in performance.

I'm actually a little surprised a large well known ammo company like Federal would do that. If they ever had a recall due to safety issues multiple lot numbers would make it difficult to pinpoint the problem.

Having worked on a production line in the past there are times when the end of the lot is reached they fill the order with what is available.
This may include a run into the next batch change or a product over run of the previous order.
Ever run the numbers on a model year end car or motorcycle?
You might be surprised and not in a good way.
Tight Groups,
Rob

 

[PSE]

Having worked on a production line in the past there are times when the end of the lot is reached they fill the order with what is available.
This may include a run into the next batch change or a product over run of the previous order.
Ever run the numbers on a model year end car or motorcycle?
You might be surprised and not in a good way.
Tight Groups,
Rob

Maybe that's why they put the lot numbers inside the flap of the ammo box and not on the outside where it would be obvious to many discerning shooters that this is a mixed lot of ammo. Buyers wouldn't necessarily open the box to see for themselves especially if there's a clear sticky on the flap that has to be sliced open.

I can see why they do the mixed lot thing but I'm not sure if that's entirely ethical from a consumer standpoint. You pay a really good dollar for factory ammo especially premo stuff. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to all come from the same lot.

 

[Buck1950]

So, did the 'mfd' codes match ? Are those cases bought 'Directly' from Federal ? or thru a distributor ?

 

[MapleSugar]

So, did the 'mfd' codes match ? Are those cases bought 'Directly' from Federal ? or thru a distributor ?

I bought them through a distributor and they were all in their original cases.

Some have the same manufacturing lot #, but different packaging lot #'s.

Then I have two that have different manufacturing lot #'s, but the same packaging lot #.

I don't know if there was a shift change while they were packaging, or if it's something else.

FWIW, it's much easier to get matching lot numbers from multiple PMC cases than it is from Federal.

 

[wai762]

I don't wish to derail the discussion, but does lot number really matter for non match grade ammo use in "non match grade" guns.
I know the ISSF 50m pistol/rifle shooters are very concern with lot number and will usually buy in huge quantity once they find a lot that works with their guns.
Put it another way, is the non match grade ammo so inconsistent such that one lot will shoot 3 MOA and another lot will shoot 1 MOA ?

 

[PSE]

I don't wish to derail the discussion, but does lot number really matter for non match grade ammo use in "non match grade" guns.
I know the ISSF 50m pistol/rifle shooters are very concern with lot number and will usually buy in huge quantity once they find a lot that works with their guns.
Put it another way, is the non match grade ammo so inconsistent such that one lot will shoot 3 MOA and another lot will shoot 1 MOA ?

I don't think it makes that big a difference (from 3 MOA to 1 MOA) - that would be a huge unrealistic change but it could potentially make up to a .5 MOA change.

The point is that the price is the same no matter what the lot number is so why not check and verify the lot number is the same as the last lot you shot that gave you that sweet 1 MOA group. I'll take everything I can get no matter how incremental especially if I'm paying premium prices for premium ammo.

I like ammo companies that post their lot number in an obvious spot for all to see. I tend to want to buy their product.

 

[MapleSugar]

I don't wish to derail the discussion, but does lot number really matter for non match grade ammo use in "non match grade" guns.
I know the ISSF 50m pistol/rifle shooters are very concern with lot number and will usually buy in huge quantity once they find a lot that works with their guns.
Put it another way, is the non match grade ammo so inconsistent such that one lot will shoot 3 MOA and another lot will shoot 1 MOA ?

When I was young, I used to notice a change in zero with .30-06 when I switched from one box to another. There might not be an enormous change, but it was usually perceptible.

Back then, I usually only bought two 20 round boxes at a time. I didn't like wasting a few rounds every time to get back on zero.

Now I buy thousands of rounds at a time and I usually have several firearms in the same caliber. I like to set my zero on all of them and not have to worry about re-zeroing every time that I open a new case.

Having ammo from the same lot is the closest that I can get to reloading it myself. If they've been loaded right and checked periodically, they should both be consistent.

FWIW, I've shot a lot of factory loads that are probably just as accurate as anything that I could ever handload and I don't have to spend countless hours in front of a reloading press fussing over them.

For my intents and purposes, factory ammo is just fine. Benchresters, and other serious people like them, would probably prefer to load their own ammo. In which case, they want consistency too. Extreme consistency.

 

[MapleSugar]

I don't think it makes that big a difference (from 3 MOA to 1 MOA) - that would be a huge unrealistic change but it could potentially make up to a .5 MOA change.

The point is that the price is the same no matter what the lot number is so why not check and verify the lot number is the same as the last lot you shot that gave you that sweet 1 MOA group. I'll take everything I can get no matter how incremental especially if I'm paying premium prices for premium ammo.

I like ammo companies that post their lot number in an obvious spot for all to see. I tend to want to buy their product.

Exactly, and even if each individual lot is inherently accurate throughout it's entirety, I would expect their average point of impact to be slightly different from any other accurate lots from the same manufacturer. All they have to do is change one thing (powder, brass, bullets, or primers) and that could greatly affect the accuracy, or point of impact.

It's not to say that every round from the same lot will shoot close to the same point of impact, but that is what I always hope for when I buy cases from the same lot.

At least there is a better chance of that happening if the various components are consistent in the first place and all of their tolerances were within spec.

Aside from that, there are always variables that can affect the quality of the ammunition, though.

When I worked in production, and we were processing huge orders, there was always the chance that the machines would lose calibration during the run and the quality would suffer.

We would perform periodic checks throughout the production run to ensure that the quality standards were being met.

But even if you're using the best machinery and components available, it all boils down to to who is running the machines.

Put an inattentive or incompetent idiot behind the controls and expect quality to suffer.