Musings From A New Long Range Shooter At A 1,000 Yards.

Max Owner

Max Owner

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
31   0   0
Location
Displaced From South Western Ontario, To GP, Alber
Hey all.

Got out yesterday (Wednesday) with my Savage 308 and portable shooting table. I have a range staked out to 1,000 yards. Isnipe on my phone.

Wind was sposed to be coming from almost directly behind me so I thought things wouldn't be so bad. So I set up, used Isnipe to set my target turrets and let fly. Target for this day was a pallet with brown paper on it and a black square (kinda) drawn and colored in with a marker. Pallet was in the 3'X4' range.

First 10 shots where complete misses. Short and to the right. After the first four I realised if I was quick enough I could spot my own hits in the dust. So started making corrections with turrets. Walked down and no hits after 10 shots. Did allot of walking that day.......

Next 5 shot I got 3 hits on paper. So I decided I wasn't gonna give up yet.

Ultimatley in the end of firing 40 rounds of Hornady factory A Max match ammo, I had 19 hits on paper.

As I was shooting I realized the wind was gusting and changing direction. In the end it seemed it came from all points of the clock through out the 5 ish hours I was out.

I had one string where all 5 hit paper. 2 were pretty damn close to my square. 3 in it........

During the event I realized wind flags would be awsome (or add to the confusion) A spotter with a scope would have helped greatly. The wind seemed to be swirling around in the space from the firing line to the target. I hope to make up 5 flags for next time.

At the Second Annual Summerland shoot I was hitting the gopher at 1,035 yards consistantly. According to Mysticplayer, the gopher is the size of a plastic milk jugg. Shooting at this distance was a breeze. There was wind but it was consistant.

Yesterday was a very humbling and almost discouraging expereince.

My scope was a Leupold MK4 4.5X14. I was shooting in the 8 to 10 power range and found it was quite good. Tried it at 14 and the mirage got a little worse. So a super powered scope may not work for some. Was quite happy with my field of view.

A mechanized mode of transportation would be awsome. Walking although good exercise means you spend allot more time getting sunburn. :redface:

Understanding wind is key.

Bipod and rear sandbag work great.

Don't need an expensive set up to shoot long range. Its more important to get out and shoot and learn how to do, first.

Can shoot prone on a mat or something. I am lucky I have a Big Shooter portable bench.

Next time I will try surveyors stakes and with orange type stuff as wind flags and see if I can do better.

FWIW...............
 
I know the gopher, shot at that thing myself. :D

How confident are you in your velocity readings as well? That would have an effect on the bullet falling short as I don't think the wind would have as big of an effect on bullet drop as velocity especially with a back wind.
 
The wonderful thing about using higher power scopes is they handle the mirage the same.

If mirage is hard to see through at max power you just back it down until it clears up. Backing your 14x to 10x did the trick, backing a 24x down to 20x works the same way as does a 42 down to 35x etc....

Discouraging is never good, but then, every once in awhile, you have one of those days when you could simply point the rifle in the general direction of your intended target and it seems like you can will the bullets to where you want, those days put a GBF Grin on your face that nothing can wipe off.

The more you shoot the better you will become.
 
Who doesn't miss? That's how you learn. You're already one up on me buddy. I'm hoping to get out soon. Once these horrid University exams are finished with I should be flinging bullets.
What kind of Savage are you shooting?? PICS??
 
Max Owner said:
My scope was a Leupold MK4 4.5X14. I was shooting in the 8 to 10 power range and found it was quite good. Tried it at 14 and the mirage got a little worse. So a super powered scope may not work for some. Was quite happy with my field of view.
Click to expand...

Wind flags are known to lie but the mirage tells you the real story. Wind flags use for shooting long range matches are triangular shaped 4 ft high by 12 ft long. Surveyors or trail marking tape won't be much help as it is too light. It works great for 50-100 yards with a .22 but for long range it is a waste of time. What the wind is doing 1/3 of the distance to the target is more important than what is going on at the target.
 
I have a set-up on dead level ground where i can shoot to 1700M. ANY sunlight at all creates wicked mirage. When the terrain to target is flat like that, mirage plays all sorts of tricks. The fact that the target appears to dance in your scope tells you the degree of error you can have with diffraction. The best shooters learn to read mirage and use it to their advantage... I am not one of those shooters yet. Having your target up a hill or across a gulley seems to make life easier. (I love Homestead Range)

1000 is a distance where all of your variables conspire to corrupt accuracy. It may be just me, but I noticed a huge difference trying to master going from 5 to 600 and an even bigger difference with crossing the next threshold at 900 and 1000.
 
Way to go MAX. Keep shooting, taking good notes about the ambient conditions and get some flags.

I got some Cdn flags from the dollar store. They are like 18"X10. Work great and are pretty quick to react. You will be amazed at how much winds can change in direction and intensity over 1000yds.

The Gopher is like a 2L pop bottle and conditions that years were superb. Try it the last few weeks and you better be quick on the dancing.

[ceriksson, hope you can make it up again with your new 6.5's.]

Worst was out at 550yds where the near wind was blowing left to right, mid wind was right to left, at the target was a huge headwind downdraft. And it kept changing.

Last time out, had a honking big tail wind and very strong gusting left to right that would go from zero to full value and back again in the span of a few seconds.

With the toys we have and proper ammo, hitting a target like you have is quite simple. The challenge is doing it when nature is having a bad day.

That's fun.

The more you shoot, the better you will get.

Jerry

PS, to speed up your learning curve, put a target on the ground. A boulder works great. That way, you can see where you are missing in the dirt. Seeing that the holes on paper is instructive but which hole went where under which conditions. Having immediate feedback vs your view of the air is the fastest way to learn how to dope conditions.

I see the conditions, SWAG at this much off target. aim fire where did it land? If a hit, then good for you. If a miss, where and by how much? Look at the conditions, SWAG your doping, send another, repeat until things start to make more sense and the hit ratio keeps improving.
 
ceriksson said:
I know the gopher, shot at that thing myself. :D

How confident are you in your velocity readings as well? That would have an effect on the bullet falling short as I don't think the wind would have as big of an effect on bullet drop as velocity especially with a back wind.
Click to expand...

I relied on Isnipe for this.

One thing I did was mess with a few settings before. I have used it a few other times with great success. Will try again and see where it gets me.
 
Jeromeo said:
Who doesn't miss? That's how you learn. You're already one up on me buddy. I'm hoping to get out soon. Once these horrid University exams are finished with I should be flinging bullets.
What kind of Savage are you shooting?? PICS??
Click to expand...



Savage 10 FP LE2B with the 26" barrel. New ones have the 24"

Gotta open a Photobucket account for pictures, I guess.
 
maynard said:
Wind flags are known to lie but the mirage tells you the real story. Wind flags use for shooting long range matches are triangular shaped 4 ft high by 12 ft long. Surveyors or trail marking tape won't be much help as it is too light. It works great for 50-100 yards with a .22 but for long range it is a waste of time. What the wind is doing 1/3 of the distance to the target is more important than what is going on at the target.
Click to expand...



The theory (in my mind anyways.....) is to see which direction the wind is coming from and hopefully judge when the lull between gusts sets in.

I hope to put one just infront of me off to the side that I can see by moving my eye only away from the scope for a look. Others will be in my line of sight spaced out.
 
Palladin Press has published Linda Miller's new book on reading wind. She is the better looking partner at MilCun Shooting Complex in Ontario.

Survey tape is very light, and will only show you the direction of the wind. Unless it is visible in the scope, it might not be much use for you. Next time you are in a discount store, buy some sports team souvenir flags and collapsable poles. They aren't DCRA style flags, but you'll get something more visible than a 1" tape.
 
While light and easily "pegged", surveyor's tape will give you much better info than no flags at all, and are practical to erect on a makeshift range.

Sounds like you did very well, especially since you were all by yourself. Spotting misses by their impact is how it's done (and much easier when a spotter does it for you).

A 3'x4' target at 1000y is pretty challenging, especially before you get on.

W.r.t. the "velocity" asked about in a previous post, I suspect the query was about your muzzle velocity not the wind velocity.

BTW the Hornady match ammo you are using, is it 168s or 155s? Do you have much testing of it done yet, e.g. how well does it shoot at 100y, what's it muzzle velocity, and what is the spread of the muzzle velocities? (these feed into what sort of 1000y accuracy you can and can't expect to be getting, even before wind is taken into account).

How did you measure out your 1000y?
 
I was using 168 factory Hornady. My velocities were based on using Isnipe. I have tried 223 and 308 at 500 yards and got first time hits. Using a few different brands of ammo (in 223) and at 300 yards aswell. As a way of testing how Isnipe's info worked. I was impressed.

As for the ranging, I parked my truck broadside and lazed off of it using a Leica 1200 rangefinder. It is possible for margin of error because I was out there by myself steaking things out. I just staked out to 2200 yards a few days ago. I do expect more margin of error in this because I parked at 1,000 and worked to 1700 yards and started to get "strange readings" So I moved truck up to 1500 yards and got to 2000. 2,000 itself (from 1900) was used off a chunk of wood. Because of minor hill. Then went from firing back 200 yards.
 
It's the Sierra 168s that are notoriously bad at 1000y. I'd guess that Hornady 168 ammo would use Hornady 168 BTHP bullets, which are similar but not identical to Sierra 168s. I don't know one way or the other if the Hornady 168s are or are not OK at 1000y.

If you do get a chance to use a better long range bullet (e.g. handloaded or factory ammo with Sierra 155 or 175), that might be help.

.308s at 1000yards is certainly doable, but it is marginal enough that it really shows up faults. An accurate load with very nonuniform velocities (eg a spread of 80fps) can whack 'em all in at 600 yards, but it will print a really atrocious group at 1000y.

(sounds like you did a good job ranging the 1000y)
 
Learning to read wind from what is around you is a good field skill to learn.

There is a standard for this know as the "Beaufort Scale". Here is a summary, along with some mirage and other observations added:

* 0-1 mph - Smoke rises vertical. mirage is verticle
* 1-3 mph - Smoke starts to drift; tall dry grass moves; large leaves start to move; mirage tips 60 degrees
* 4-7 mph - Wind clearly felt on face; leaves rustle; mirage tips 45 degrees; flat lines a 24” piece of flagging ribbon
* 8-12 mph - Leaves, tips of conifers, small twigs in constant motion; mirage starts to flat line
* 13-17 mph - Dust, leaves and loose paper lifted;small tree branches move.
* 18-22 mph - Small trees with leaves begin to sway; blows away mirage; crested wavelets form on inland waters;

Slowly releasing fine, dry dust from your hand has a similar effect to smoke...

It can be customized for the vegetation in your area. Its just a matter of taking readings with a Kestrel and noting the wind's effects on things around you.


EDIT: Here is a pretty graphic
beaufort_scale_tbp.gif


#12 is a real ##### to shoot in. :p

This one is also kind of amusing:
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/fgz/spotter/images/beaufort.gif

.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom