Muzzle Brakes Area 419 vs Insite Arms vs APA Fat Bastard

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JNA

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Hey Guys,

Was looking into these three muzzle Brakes for my 308 TRG-22 (I already have it threaded to 5/8-24), but wanted to see if anyone has any experience with these three brakes as they are all apparently great.

I currently have a 419 idewinder on my 6.5 Creedmoor, but wasn't sure whether to go Hellfire or Sidewinder, but also tried an InSite on a 20" DTA that seemed to hold very well and wasn't sure if that would be a better way to go.

I am hoping to use the TRG for PRS/PR matches along with my 6.5 creedmoor.

Let me know your thoughts.
 
I've owned all 3. From a managing recoil perspective, they are all fairly close, they all do a really good job. What separates them is the little details.

The APA brake uses wrench flats, and in my experience required a wrench to torque up, and even then it had an annoying habit of coming loose. Perhaps I was a victim of tolerance stacking, maybe the barrel threads on that particular rifle and barrel were cut a bit on the smaller side. The gills/ports of the brake are directed in a fashion that blasts goes back to the shooter. Effective design for mitigating recoil, but can be obnoxious to the shooter.

The Area 419 brake also has the gills directed back towards the shooter, so as a shooter it's not always the most comfortable muzzle device to shoot. The locking collar is knurled, which I prefer over APA's wrench flats. I've had issues with the locking collar getting carbon locked, so have a few of my friends. That part of the design doesn't seem too forgiving of debris. Mine locked up tighter then a nuns conchita. The ports have really sharp edges, the edges aren't radiused at all. After having my brake lock right up, I sliced my hand up really good trying to unlock that brake. Those things are damn sharp.

The Insite is my favorite. The first main port is directed 90° to the shooter, so the majority of the blast is directed away from the shooter. It also has the benefit of disrupting the blast that's directed back to the shooter in the remaining ports. This brake has my favorite knurling design. All the edges are radiused, overall machine work is higher quality then the other options. The changeable end caps are nice if you want to change out the port size. Different OD's available so you can aesthetically pair it up with your barrel profile.

They are all effective at managing recoil, but in my mind one stands above the rest with all the smaller details.
 
kthomas said:
The Insite is my favorite. The first main port is directed 90° to the shooter, so the majority of the blast is directed away from the shooter. It also has the benefit of disrupting the blast that's directed back to the shooter in the remaining ports. This brake has my favorite knurling design. All the edges are radiused, overall machine work is higher quality then the other options. The changeable end caps are nice if you want to change out the port size. Different OD's available so you can aesthetically pair it up with your barrel profile.

They are all effective at managing recoil, but in my mind one stands above the rest with all the smaller details.
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As much as it pains me to agree with kthomas as a matter of principal, in this case he actually does have a point.

Not that there's anything the Op can do about it at this stage, but the 5/8 muzzle thread might be something of a weak point. These days, guys are migrating to 3/4 muzzle thread to better maintain the integrity of the bore.

It has been proven that a reduction in the outside diameter results in an increasing of the inside diameter. Since match grade barrels are lapped to create a slight taper so they are tightest at the muzzle, threading the muzzle causes a slight flaring of the inside diameter that is counter to accuracy.

This is why guys are migrating to a larger 3/4 muzzle thread, to reduce this effect.

One could present an argument that the Cadex MX1 brake being a clamp style could be torqued to possibly counter this effect at least to some degree. I've been meaning to test this theory with pin gages before and after tightening, but I suspect the change would be less than the 0.001" increments of my pin gage collection. Perhaps a tapered pin would be more suitable.
 
I run a Heathen as well, the only one I have ever tried. Its very nice, have no reason to try anything else. Sound is reasonable, does not kick up too much dust, I have a small strap wrench I use to snug it up and remove it to clean, stays in my gun case.
 
Fat Bastard and Heathen... What names for brakes!

There must be a Noisy F@@ker and several Ugly F@@kers out there too.
 
I am really liking the Cadex mx1 and the new Micro over every other brake I have tried to date. In fact I sold a Insite to fund the Micro for my 6CM
 
Jamie said:
I am really liking the Cadex mx1 and the new Micro over every other brake I have tried to date. In fact I sold a Insite to fund the Micro for my 6CM
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I've never tried the Cadex, heard they mitigate recoil well.

How are the ports directed? Do they direct blast back to the shooter, or away? From what I can see it looks like they are angled back, similar to the APA and Area419.

Another potential critique is the set screw "pinch" design, I know some gunsmiths aren't too big of fans of brakes that "pinch" the muzzle, but I'm not sure how much it really effects the rifle, if any, in actuality.
 
Thanks Everyone. I guess it's time for me to get a Heathen. Now not sure how many ports or thickness to get. I will give them a call.
 
I'll echo what everyone else said, the Heathen is a truly fantastic brake. I run them on all my rifles. The new 4-port does offer even more recoil reduction than the original and I would assume the 5-port, even more so (I have one on a .300 Norma Mag I just had Insite build but haven't started load dev yet). Give them a call and they'll set you up with the correct brake for your application.
 
kthomas said:
I've never tried the Cadex, heard they mitigate recoil well.

How are the ports directed? Do they direct blast back to the shooter, or away? From what I can see it looks like they are angled back, similar to the APA and Area419.

Another potential critique is the set screw "pinch" design, I know some gunsmiths aren't too big of fans of brakes that "pinch" the muzzle, but I'm not sure how much it really effects the rifle, if any, in actuality.
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Swept back but not bad at the shooter but not so good to a person beside him/her

I can’t see how a pinch clamp can cause any issue on a 5/8” barrel
 
I think a pinch clamp or a thread may induce some force on the bore... but unless it is taken to extremes it is more theoretical than anything else.

When I dial in a bore in a 4 jaw chuck in my lathe I can feel the difference in the bore with gauges made to the 10 thousand of an inch... tighten the chuck up fairly hard and you won't be able to pull the gauge out that was previously loose ... but that is working on 4 points... a pinch clamp on the bore could possibly do the same thing.
 
guntech said:
I think a pinch clamp or a thread may induce some force on the bore... but unless it is taken to extremes it is more theoretical than anything else.

When I dial in a bore in a 4 jaw chuck in my lathe I can feel the difference in the bore with gauges made to the 10 thousand of an inch... tighten the chuck up fairly hard and you won't be able to pull the gauge out that was previously loose ... but that is working on 4 points... a pinch clamp on the bore could possibly do the same thing.
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I torqued mine to 17” lbs and if I remember correctly in mini was no more the 25...

I think your 4jaw would put more on it.

I have seen crush washer “ twist “ the muzzle on 1/2”-24 barrels
 
What diameter Insite brake should I get? I have a heavy Varmint barrel (.84” at the muzzle) right now, but will likely bump up to something in the .9” at the muzzle range when I burn this one out. Leaning .885.
 
BeerBaron said:
What diameter Insite brake should I get? I have a heavy Varmint barrel (.84” at the muzzle) right now, but will likely bump up to something in the .9” at the muzzle range when I burn this one out. Leaning .885.
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I believe .885 is what I have on my HV contour barrel, and it looks great on there.
 
Only owned 2 out of the 3, since I’m a 3/4x24 muzzle thread fan I am somewhat limited.

Area 419, gave me accuracy issues, hole drilled a bit too tight maybe?

Insite arms Heathens, absolutely perfect in every way. Was able to achieve sub 1/4 minute 5 shot groups at 200M with it, while having no muzzle blast redirected to me. A bit more recoil than many brakes but saving the muzzle blast blowback is totally worth it!
 
FWIW I went with the .885 Heathen brake for my 6.5 CTR. I do wish Insight would offer the 4 port Heathen in .885 diameter but oh well. The Heathen .885 brake is actually closer to .890, but matches my .795 CTR barrel nicely.

My research indicated that all the popular brakes did their jobs well. I only went with the Heathen because of their different OD's. I probably would have gone with the Hellfire if it came in a smaller OD.
 
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