Muzzle break for .308.

Brake !

Even my 11 yr old son shoots a 500 Gibbs with no brake - brakes are not for recoil reduction - they are to p!ss off the guy shooting beside you !
And of course for speed competitions - they work GREAT for muzzle flip
:stirthepot2:
 
chopper 1 said:
Even my 11 yr old son shoots a 500 Gibbs with no brake - brakes are not for recoil reduction - they are to p!ss off the guy shooting beside you !
And of course for speed competitions - they work GREAT for muzzle flip
:stirthepot2:
Click to expand...

You crack me up. Why don't you and son come out to the next 50cal shoot we put on at the Genese Range southwest of Edmonton AB, and we'll see how much you like muzzle brake afterwards. Depending on the brake design, you will get muzzle jump. The ones we design and build, keep your gun from creating a dust signature, also keep your muzzle down, take away pretty much all recoil and piss the guy off that's shooting beside you. THat last one is a bonus feature.

I think this post (boast) about being able to shoot a 500Gibbs is exactly that. Your kid could be 6'5" and 400lbs for all I know or your gun could weigh 25lbs. I'm positive that if lent your 500gibbs, I could take enough weigh out of it and do up a load hot enough that it would dislocate your shoulder, but at least you'd be able to say you shot your crazy recoil gun. I'm not impressed easily.
 
Westeasterner

Glock-a-maniac said:
You crack me up. Why don't you and son come out to the next 50cal shoot we put on at the Genese Range southwest of Edmonton AB, and we'll see how much you like muzzle brake afterwards. Depending on the brake design, you will get muzzle jump. The ones we design and build, keep your gun from creating a dust signature, also keep your muzzle down, take away pretty much all recoil and piss the guy off that's shooting beside you. THat last one is a bonus feature.

I think this post (boast) about being able to shoot a 500Gibbs is exactly that. Your kid could be 6'5" and 400lbs for all I know or your gun could weigh 25lbs. I'm positive that if lent your 500gibbs, I could take enough weigh out of it and do up a load hot enough that it would dislocate your shoulder, but at least you'd be able to say you shot your crazy recoil gun. I'm not impressed easily.
Click to expand...

Would love to join you - Born out there but in the east now. And with hot loads neither my boy nor I dislocated anything, but we limit shooting the big stuff cause it causes the brain to bounce in the skull - causes headaches , AND the chance of a dislocated retina !:stirthepot2:
 
suprathepeg said:
Wow this went OT real fast. FWIW I'm gonna use the dlask 3 port storty brake on the m14.
Click to expand...


If it's for an M14, check out Smith Enterprise for their coast guard brake. They have an awesome video of one in full auto mode and that's what sold me on it. I put one on my done up M1A for the BCRA match last year and it was awesome; unfortunately it's still a battle rifle and everyone elses guns were far more accurate then mine but I did see more then one scope bite last year from fairly accomplished shooters due to 'RECOIL' strickly because of the type of shooting we were doing with a simuplated under car setup. Muzzle brakes aren't allowed in the BCRA matches but for the rest of the shoots it hasn't been outlawed yet so hence the brake.
 
Do muzzle breaks effect accuracy? If they do are there some that have less impact on accuracy than others? Why? What's the difference between a muzzle brake and a flash eliminator? very curious.....
 
brake

AP said:
Do muzzle breaks effect accuracy? If they do are there some that have less impact on accuracy than others? Why? What's the difference between a muzzle brake and a flash eliminator? very curious.....
Click to expand...

flash eliminator dissipates the light - nada else - brake diminishes recoil -
all the brakes I have tested so far have no effect on accuracy - just POI-
 
I guess I can now say this on the forum without getting yelled at. We bring in the Smith Ent. brakes and have a couple of the M14 coast guard brakes left. They're not cheap but they replace the factory brake and they work. Check out the video if you haven't already on the Smith Ent. website.

As for a muzzle brake on a bolt gun, it will change the point of impact but I haven't been able to tell the difference in accuracy. There is some logic however to building the brake in that it has to be semetrical. I think the debate on this topic could be a thread of it's own though.
 
Back in the dark ages [ early 80's ] I designed some of the first compensated Govt model pistols in Canada. This was before .38 STUPIDO and 9 MM Masochist reared their ugly heads, so these early comps were in .45 ACP.

Compensator [ or muzzle brakes in rifles ] design is now a science, but back then it was more of an art, or maybe "voodoo".

Anyhow, after a lot of trial and error [ these days we call this "research & development" ] I came up with a design that worked well for my shooting style. My scores in Irritating Pipples Squabbling Constantly went up almost 15 % overnight.

Since I also was playing around with .45 SUPER [ for bowling pins and ... other things ] and with .44 MAGnum, I got in a bit more experience with porting and comping these hi powered pistol loads. I also started using the 155 Gr HARD cast .45 ACP lead bullets from OMA, which left a lot more residual gas pressure at the port, so those .45 comps actually started to really work efficiently. And, I built a "comp" for my shorty AR 10, again for bowling pins and for three gun practical shooting.

IMHO,
the difference that a comp/port/brake can make in fast and furious shooting is astronomical.

As for recoil reduction to avoid pain, after three wrist operations, and bursitis in my right shoulder, anything that helps me make it through the day is a welcome addition.
LAZ 1

PS: I would be interested in hearing more about muzzle brakes and POI changes ... I once blew a stage @ the Canuckistani Champs because I installed a HARRTS mercury filled gude rod in my race gun on match day. In slow fire, I could detect no changes, but in dubletaps, the second shot actually went quite a bit lower [ into three NO Shoot B zones in a row]
yechhh!
[;{(
 
Do muzzle breaks effect accuracy? If they do are there some that have less impact on accuracy than others? Why? What's the difference between a muzzle brake and a flash eliminator? very curious.....
Click to expand...

this area is still fascinating... on the one hand we have folks who are obsessive about the crown of their rifle muzzle - the smallest ding leading to compulsive behaviour...and on the other hand there are folks happily screwing on various devices to the end of the muzzle that don't appear to be that precisely machined (at least to me)... or perhaps even true to the bore... as their crown.

What about the weight of the muzzle brake? does it have to be a specific weight at a specific distance from the chamber so that barrel harmonics are not upset...do barrel harmonics matter at all? some benchrest shooters seem to think so .. as do/did some long range shooters. Or is it that on large calibres there is no appreciable impact on the ultimate accuracy.

If muzzle brakes have to be symmetrical - what about some of the fancy Russian military ones that are cut obliquely?

Is there a technical differentiation between a brake and a compensator?
 
Good posts both of you. Very interesting. I can't help but think that if the muzzle brake is totally round with semetrical ports on both sides be it gills or holes at whatever degree, as long as they are the same the gases can leave the barrel all at the same time. I cut a 4 gill brake for my 338LM AI. This rifle burns 112gr of powder and the recoil, I would imagine would be rediculous without the brake but the idea of the four gill as apose to the three gill we've been cutting till now was to further reduce recoil with the heavy bullets we're launching. The end result, no change in recoil. I also made this brake round and slightly bigger then my last one making the individual gills longer for better sail affect and again, the same result. One other one I cut was flat on the top and bottom and with load developement, that gun shoots a
.557 3 shot group at 300m. This accuracy totally kills the theory of the brake having to be semetrical for harmonic reasons. I look at a lot of the 50cal brakes out there and while some are round, others, like the Barrett, Steyr, AR50, have tanks brakes while though abusive with gases coming back to slap you in the face, work incredibly well and accuracy is still quite good. I'm wondering if maybe it more so boils down to the barrel wip affect with the weight at the end of the barrel over what it's really shaped like.
I'm still working on that one.
 
Pg 4 and we are back to discussing guns not the size of our ......

A muzzle brake DOES NOT affect accuracy IF it is sized properly for the bullet AND the load is adjusted for the added weight.

Remember that by the time the gases get to the brake and blow sideways, your bullet is long gone. yes, there is a bit of gas that precedes the bullet but it better be very little or you are getting horrendous blow by and that means lousy accuracy (or shooting a bullet one cal too small).

If you watch a properly designed brake while it is firing, you will see a very small puff going forward and lots going sideways.

Because the exit hole is usually 20thou OVER bullet diameter, the crown is not that critical. The bullet and crown are too far apart to make an effective seal so any irregularities here doesn't affect the bullet.

The reason for that space is so the bullet cannot hit the brake during its travel and recoil. Going larger reduces brake effectiveness quickly because the gas will vent forward instead of sideways - path of least resistance.

As for all this tech about hole spacings and patterns, I really don't think that a large volume of gas traveling over 4000fps at 35000psi gives a rip if a hole is two thou left or right. It wants out and it wants out NOW.

So the most effective brakes are those that have the largest side venting possible. Because of limits imposed by keeping the brake from breaking, there is only so much surface area you can mill off. The larger the diameter of the brake, the larger the effective area you can mill off.

In a single expansion brake ie KDF with lots of holes around the perimeter, more bigger holes wins. Done the testing and it was very dramatic. Pattern is irrelevant except for appearance and reducing dust.

The most effective none directional brakes are the gill style because they redirect the gas sideways and give the gas a surface to hit pushing the rifle forward. This sail effect does work.

At some point, the amount of gas available isn't enough to make the brake work so making really long brakes is not as effective as making wide brakes. Plus it increases the chances a bullet might hit the brake. The artillery/JP style clamshell brakes are by far the most effective of this style.

Two, at most three chambers is all the chambers that can get used - you are trying to move the gas sideways remember and the faster you do it the better. Adjusting the distance between chambers can affect how the gas exits. Bigger holes are good but need to be sized to allow all vents to work effectively.

Making the brake wide (doesn't have to be overly thick) gives the gas more surface area to push on. Vents going forward to the second/third chamber can help drive the brake more effectively. However, there should be no vents beyond the last brake wall or brake effectiveness will drop. The muzzle hole should be it.

So Glock to increase the effectiveness of your brake, keep it 3 gills but double the width. That'll help.

Jerry
 
Great reply

mysticplayer said:
Pg 4 and we are back to discussing guns not the size of our ......

A muzzle brake DOES NOT affect accuracy IF it is sized properly for the bullet AND the load is adjusted for the added weight.

Remember that by the time the gases get to the brake and blow sideways, your bullet is long gone. yes, there is a bit of gas that precedes the bullet but it better be very little or you are getting horrendous blow by and that means lousy accuracy (or shooting a bullet one cal too small).

If you watch a properly designed brake while it is firing, you will see a very small puff going forward and lots going sideways.

Because the exit hole is usually 20thou OVER bullet diameter, the crown is not that critical. The bullet and crown are too far apart to make an effective seal so any irregularities here doesn't affect the bullet.

The reason for that space is so the bullet cannot hit the brake during its travel and recoil. Going larger reduces brake effectiveness quickly because the gas will vent forward instead of sideways - path of least resistance.

As for all this tech about hole spacings and patterns, I really don't think that a large volume of gas traveling over 4000fps at 35000psi gives a rip if a hole is two thou left or right. It wants out and it wants out NOW.

So the most effective brakes are those that have the largest side venting possible. Because of limits imposed by keeping the brake from breaking, there is only so much surface area you can mill off. The larger the diameter of the brake, the larger the effective area you can mill off.

In a single expansion brake ie KDF with lots of holes around the perimeter, more bigger holes wins. Done the testing and it was very dramatic. Pattern is irrelevant except for appearance and reducing dust.

The most effective none directional brakes are the gill style because they redirect the gas sideways and give the gas a surface to hit pushing the rifle forward. This sail effect does work.

At some point, the amount of gas available isn't enough to make the brake work so making really long brakes is not as effective as making wide brakes. Plus it increases the chances a bullet might hit the brake. The artillery/JP style clamshell brakes are by far the most effective of this style.

Two, at most three chambers is all the chambers that can get used - you are trying to move the gas sideways remember and the faster you do it the better. Adjusting the distance between chambers can affect how the gas exits. Bigger holes are good but need to be sized to allow all vents to work effectively.

Making the brake wide (doesn't have to be overly thick) gives the gas more surface area to push on. Vents going forward to the second/third chamber can help drive the brake more effectively. However, there should be no vents beyond the last brake wall or brake effectiveness will drop. The muzzle hole should be it.

So Glock to increase the effectiveness of your brake, keep it 3 gills but double the width. That'll help.

Jerry
Click to expand...

Good info - thanks :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom