Muzzle Flash Testing
- Thread starter Clobbersauras
- Start date
There is not a single pronged suppressor in the market with an open slot in the prong - relief cut is done outside to save weight.
Not to say anything bad about dlask, but they are not an engineering firm. They probably think it looks a bit different to cut a slot in the center to differentiate itself from other products. Nothing wrong with that. However, I do not believe there is any hard science and analysis to justify the additonal openings. It probably does not do more in flash suppression than the traditional pronged FS, but not making it worst either.
When the traditional suppressor could efficiently distribute the unburn powder at muzzle, it makes no sense to do more than it is needed.
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
I've never seen another one either. Good for Dlask for doing something different.
I don't know them personally, but I wouldn't discount Dlask and his staff, some of the stuff they have come up with has been very innovative.
The slots are there for a reason. Here's the description of the product on their web site:
This concept is not new. The slots aren't there to further reduce flash, they are there to help accuracy.
I'm still just a baby in my understanding of this, but I believe Gas Dynamics and Fluid Mechanics would explain most of the hard science behind this concept. I'm still trying to learn the concepts involved. This wasn't my discipline in University and I'm only a couple of I.Q. points above feeding myself, so progress has been slow.
Other manufacturers use similar ideas....
ht tps://www.volquartsen.com/products/472-forward-blow-stabilization-module
Thanks for the discussion on this, these threads always give me more things to learn and think about.
Last edited:
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
He'll probably say a sound suppressor.
Just because he likes to rub it in.
Incidentally, if you want zero flash, you either have to shoot the rifle in a vacuum, or very high altitude.
Sound suppressors can be excellent flash suppressors but not always. It does actually take some intelligent design to make sure they don't produce any flash. A suppressor has a tendency to produce a cohesive flow out the front which can result in a nice propane torch like flash as the superheated gases hit the oxygen bearing air.
Did I hear Charlie Brown's mom?
My guess is that he says KAC Triple Tap
*Edit - just saw a pic of the Triple Tap at night and it turns your AR into a flamethrower
Hello, it's me, the OP of this test, Dave Merrilll, AKA Dave_M or DavePAL84 from some other forums from MilCopp Tactical LLC.
Some additional notes:
The primary purpose of a flash hider is to protect the vision of the shooter; when I was doing testing/proof of concept in regards to which ammunition had the most flash, my eyes hurt horribly after. It was like being hit with a camera flash up close and in the dark repeatedly. Follow-up shots on a target would be very difficult indeed.
Primary flash proved quite distracting from a couple of the flash hiders (The PWS proved to be a culprit) but I’d like to measure it subjectively from the viewpoint of the shooter. It is notable that while the A2, Vltor, and BC did have secondary bloom, it wasn’t as noticeable as the primary (which doesn’t make much sense to me currently). Currently, a setup is being looking at that takes pictures from the perspective of the shooter.
Ideally, I’d like to use a threaded bolt gun in the future to maximize the amount of gas moving through the muzzle devices. The action of the rifle itself, as we know, eats up some of this during operation. Different gas port sizes/ port erosion can vary from setup to setup. As testing is done at extremes (short barrel and very flashy ammunition), a bolt gun would provide one more step in that direction.
Utilizing longer barrels, and also importantly, quality low-flash ammunition would likely mitigate the differences among the muzzle devices considerably. So while one device or another may appear to be XYZ times better than another with my ‘worst case’ setup, performance between them on a different setup with different ammunition may be very similar indeed.
Some additional notes:
The primary purpose of a flash hider is to protect the vision of the shooter; when I was doing testing/proof of concept in regards to which ammunition had the most flash, my eyes hurt horribly after. It was like being hit with a camera flash up close and in the dark repeatedly. Follow-up shots on a target would be very difficult indeed.
Primary flash proved quite distracting from a couple of the flash hiders (The PWS proved to be a culprit) but I’d like to measure it subjectively from the viewpoint of the shooter. It is notable that while the A2, Vltor, and BC did have secondary bloom, it wasn’t as noticeable as the primary (which doesn’t make much sense to me currently). Currently, a setup is being looking at that takes pictures from the perspective of the shooter.
Ideally, I’d like to use a threaded bolt gun in the future to maximize the amount of gas moving through the muzzle devices. The action of the rifle itself, as we know, eats up some of this during operation. Different gas port sizes/ port erosion can vary from setup to setup. As testing is done at extremes (short barrel and very flashy ammunition), a bolt gun would provide one more step in that direction.
Utilizing longer barrels, and also importantly, quality low-flash ammunition would likely mitigate the differences among the muzzle devices considerably. So while one device or another may appear to be XYZ times better than another with my ‘worst case’ setup, performance between them on a different setup with different ammunition may be very similar indeed.
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
Welcome to the CGN Dave.
Thanks again for allowing me to post your excellent results here. I'm really looking forward to the other tests you have planned.
Thanks again for allowing me to post your excellent results here. I'm really looking forward to the other tests you have planned.
My guess is that he says KAC Triple Tap
*Edit - just saw a pic of the Triple Tap at night and it turns your AR into a flamethrower
TT is a horrible Flash Suppressor
The SEI vortex was declared the winner it is unfortunate that no pictures could be taken as the muzzle flash was non existent .As for the Phantom IMO I think it will perform no better than the A2 muzzle brake
Non-existent, I doubt it. I've seen other tests where you could easily see flash from a Vortex, however minimal. This was a few years ago so I doubt I'd ever be able to find the thread but it was over on arfcom. They had the Phantom in their test and it was close in performance to the Vortex, nothing like an A2.
I'm curious why they say they had no flash from the Vortex, it's an excellent flash suppressor, but non-existent? I doubt it.
- Location
- calgary alberta
We have a couple of prototypes that are in final testing right now, so far the new designs seem to be better than the spex. We should have full production going later next week.
We will have them at the Calgary Gun Show later this month
- Location
- calgary alberta
So far in a side by side comparison, with same 11.5" barrel length and same ammo being used in both, the new design appears to be more effective.
Once we have a bit more time to spend at the range in the dark with cameras we will be posting the info and footage.
- Location
- calgary alberta
All I have to work with is the spex, a Dlask and our new flash hider.
I may be able to borrow a Noveske KX3
