Muzzle Flash Testing
- Thread starter Clobbersauras
- Start date
CarbineOne
Regular
Hint: It's not a flash hider.
It's primary job is as a comp and a brake... much like the name suggests. It's like saying the Triple Tap is a piece of crap because it doesn't hide flash.
Theres some pretty high end guys out there using the comp.
- Location
- calgary alberta
There is a HUGE difference between what a compensator does, versus a flash hider versus a muzzle brake. Each is engineered for a specific purpose.
We have an extremely well designed brake that significantly reduces muzzle climb and recoil, but makes most ARs into fire breathing dragons.As far as flash goes it sucks but it was never intended to curtail muzzle flash.
Our new flash suppressor which we have called "The Eliminator" was engineered solely to eliminate muzzle flash, it does virtually nothing for muzzle climb or recoil reduction.
The point I am trying to make here is that 1 can not compare all muzzle attachments as being designed for the same purpose, so where some are better at flash suppression, others are better at muzzle control.
We have an extremely well designed brake that significantly reduces muzzle climb and recoil, but makes most ARs into fire breathing dragons.As far as flash goes it sucks but it was never intended to curtail muzzle flash.
Our new flash suppressor which we have called "The Eliminator" was engineered solely to eliminate muzzle flash, it does virtually nothing for muzzle climb or recoil reduction.
The point I am trying to make here is that 1 can not compare all muzzle attachments as being designed for the same purpose, so where some are better at flash suppression, others are better at muzzle control.
Last edited:
CarbineOne
Regular
Many people have no idea what the difference between the following:
A) Flash Hider
-A.1 Blast Cones (Subcategory)
B) Muzzle Brake
C) Compensator
As a rule of thumb, you cannot have all three (as least not well...).
A) As the name suggests, it hides the muzzle flash. To preserve night vision, prevent 'flashlighting' of your position.
- A.1) Blast cones will generally do an excellent job of hiding flash from a 270+ degree viewing angle, but many still have flash when seen from down range.
B) Reduction of recoil by redirecting the forward travelling blast of gasses not forwards. Simple physics. As a consequence, they will be louder in whatever direction the gasses get thrown. How 'blasty' muzzle brakes will be depend on the design.
C) Reduction of muzzle climb or 'flip' by venting gasses in an upward direction, often by closing the 6 o' clock vent/hole/baffle/etc. Very useful for rifles that do not recoil 'in line' with the shooters shoulder (i.e. M14 vs. AR15). Does NOT mitigate or reduce felt recoil. Passive advantage of reducing ground disturbance signature when firing standard prone positions.
For example, a standard A2 muzzle device is both a flash hider and a compensator. It does not reduce recoil.
Competition brakes like the Benny Hill Rolling Thunder, various Miculek devices, etc. maximize reduction of recoil and muzzle rise at the cost of 0 flash hiding and often extreme lateral concussion. Some muzzle brakes will do a very good job reducing recoil while not being 'excessively' blasty, like the KAC Triple Tap and the BCE BattleComp.
Blast cones like Noveske's KX3 or the SPEX do not reduce recoil or muzzle rise (aside from the added weight
), and they do a pretty good job of reduce flash but their primary purpose is increasing the comfort of people in proximity to you by forcing all the blast downrange.
A) Flash Hider
-A.1 Blast Cones (Subcategory)
B) Muzzle Brake
C) Compensator
As a rule of thumb, you cannot have all three (as least not well...).
A) As the name suggests, it hides the muzzle flash. To preserve night vision, prevent 'flashlighting' of your position.
- A.1) Blast cones will generally do an excellent job of hiding flash from a 270+ degree viewing angle, but many still have flash when seen from down range.
B) Reduction of recoil by redirecting the forward travelling blast of gasses not forwards. Simple physics. As a consequence, they will be louder in whatever direction the gasses get thrown. How 'blasty' muzzle brakes will be depend on the design.
C) Reduction of muzzle climb or 'flip' by venting gasses in an upward direction, often by closing the 6 o' clock vent/hole/baffle/etc. Very useful for rifles that do not recoil 'in line' with the shooters shoulder (i.e. M14 vs. AR15). Does NOT mitigate or reduce felt recoil. Passive advantage of reducing ground disturbance signature when firing standard prone positions.
For example, a standard A2 muzzle device is both a flash hider and a compensator. It does not reduce recoil.
Competition brakes like the Benny Hill Rolling Thunder, various Miculek devices, etc. maximize reduction of recoil and muzzle rise at the cost of 0 flash hiding and often extreme lateral concussion. Some muzzle brakes will do a very good job reducing recoil while not being 'excessively' blasty, like the KAC Triple Tap and the BCE BattleComp.
Blast cones like Noveske's KX3 or the SPEX do not reduce recoil or muzzle rise (aside from the added weight
), and they do a pretty good job of reduce flash but their primary purpose is increasing the comfort of people in proximity to you by forcing all the blast downrange.
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
^^^ very good explanation.
I'm very interested to see Ricks new design. I bet it will work as well or better than he states.
I'm very interested to see Ricks new design. I bet it will work as well or better than he states.
Good to see you publically admit you are ripping off my design. They always say that admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.
Might be worth checking out what this government agency has to say about Canadian intellectual property rights BEFORE you steal someone else's ideas.
http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca
Lets ask if he can explain how and why a flash suppressor actually suppresses the flash. That ought to be entertaining.
- Location
- calgary alberta
1st answer NO
2nd answer He was a contractor to ATRS but the spex was made in ATRS shop and he was paid for the work he produced.
Peter You REALLY need to spend some time learning to read. I know writing is NOT your long suit, a comprehensive reading skill would help in avoiding the amount of time that you need to keep removing your feet from your mouth.
READ my post again and you will see the words NEW DESIGN.
Although I have no dog in the fight, it's a bit early for anyone to drag out Intellectual Property law before the ATRS device is even available for scrutiny. For all we know, it's made of unobtainium and attaches to the pistol grip - lol.
ALL of the R&D samples and design work was done on my own time in my own shop. We farmed the work out to several different shops, including ATRS. All the different shops were paid for their work, including ATRS.
When a designer farms a job out to a shop to make a product and the shop is paid for that work, the shop does not somehow own the design. Except maybe in some kind of twisted fantasy world.
When you learn to read what you wrote, you will see that you wrote this.
I don't see "new" in there. I see a copy of something you even call by the name we use.
Really? Cause the prof's who gave me a Bachelor's of Science Degree didn't seem to have a problem with my writing and reading. I seem to remember that I was constantly asked to proofread someone's near illegible scriblings quite often.
- Location
- calgary alberta
Just to set the record straight once and for all the NEW ATRS Eliminator flash suppressor has NOTHING to do with the spex, Peter (suputin) has had ZERO input in design or anything else to do with this product. And we here at ATRS are very happy about that. This product was engineered in co-operation with another CGN member. (Thanks Andrew)
There is a striking similarity to the spex brake in the fact that it is round and has 1/2x28TPI threads, which may be a proprietary design of peters, we are having legal minds look into whether he has cause for suit or not at this time. To the best of our lawyers research there is no infringement on round devices with 1/2x28TPI threads that they can find.
Further testing today shows this new flash suppressor to have significant reduced flash when compared to a spex.
Video footage will be posted on CGN when available. Video will be shot at The Shooting Center (Thanks guys!!) with a head to head comparison with several other makers flash suppressors. Thanks to those who have offered other makers flash suppressors for comparison purposes.
This product was engineered in co-operation with another CGN member. (Thanks Andrew)There is a striking similarity to the spex brake in the fact that it is round and has 1/2x28TPI threads, which may be a proprietary design of peters, we are having legal minds look into whether he has cause for suit or not at this time. To the best of our lawyers research there is no infringement on round devices with 1/2x28TPI threads that they can find.
Further testing today shows this new flash suppressor to have significant reduced flash when compared to a spex.
Video footage will be posted on CGN when available. Video will be shot at The Shooting Center (Thanks guys!!) with a head to head comparison with several other makers flash suppressors. Thanks to those who have offered other makers flash suppressors for comparison purposes.
Then why did you call it an "updated spex"? Do you not understand what the word "updated" means? How can something that has no resemblance to a SPEX be described as an "updated spex"? Is english like a second language to you?
Either your brake resembles a SPEX and is thus a ripoff of my design or it has no resemblance to a SPEX and thus could in no way be described as an "updated spex" in which case you might consider some remedial classes to learn the language you claim to speak. Would you would describe a banana as an updated vacuum cleaner?
Either your design is an "updated spex" or it bears no resemblance to the SPEX. You can't have it both ways. So which is it? Are you a liar or a moron?
Speaking of questionable communication skills, the fact your last post even has paragraphs suggests to me that someone else wrote it for you ...... just like I used to have to do.
You seemed more than happy to have a part in the SPEX project. In fact you #####ed and whined when we did 90% of the work without involving you. We only let you be a part of the SPEX to shut you up cause we couldn't handle the whingeing and self pitty and moaning about it.
Now all we need is for Birdman Technologies to come out with a crush washer specifically sized to index the flash suppressor for a gun held sideways and it will definitely need to suppress sound too so the rifle going off doesn't drown out the shooter yelling "YO!".
autocrash
CGN Regular
...Might be better if it held a compensator at 90 degrees... I dunno, do they care about group size and stringing in drive-by's?
